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THE LAST Trump of God!

The Fundamentalists Folly

                 FUNDAMENTALIST'S TEACHING ON "LAST TRUMP"


A CHILD CAN GET A CONCORDANCE OF THE BIBLE AND LOOK UP "TRUMP"
AND "TRUMPET" IN THE NEW TESTAMENT. AND PUT THEM ALL TOGETHER AND
HAVE NO TROUBLE. BUT THE "SCHOLASTIC" FUNDAMENTALISTS, BECAUSE OF
THEIR TEACHING OF 7 YEAR TRIBULATION, A RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH IN
THE MIDDLE, FLYING OFF TO HEAVEN, THEN COMING AGAIN WITH CHRIST
IN GLORY AT THE END OF THE LAST 3 AND 1/2 YEARS ..... WELL OF
COURSE THEY HAVE TO DIVIDE UP THE "LAST TRUMP."  IT'S TIME FOR ME
TO ANSWER THEIR ARGUMENTS - Keith Hunt


From the book "The Popular Encyclopedia of Bible Prophecy" by Tim
Lahaye and Ed Hindson, we read:


LAST TRUMPET!

IN I CORINTHIANS 15:52 the apostle Paul teaches that the rapture
will take place at the last trumpet. Opponents of
pretribulationism say the "last trumpet" statement in this
passage indicates that the rapture cannot take place before the
Tribulation. They argue that this mention of the last trumpet
relates to events at the end of the Tribulation. However, we will
see that Paul's "last trumpet" statement harmonizes perfectly
with pretribulationism.

("Pre-tribulationism" is the teaching that the "rapture" of the
church is BEFORE the great tribulation at the end time - Keith
Hunt)

Quote:

TRUMPETS IN REVELATION

Some midtribulationists and posttribulationists attempt to equate
the "last trumpet" in I Corinthians 15:52 with the seventh
trumpet in Revelation 11:15-19. Revelation 11:15, however, does
not say specifically "last trumpet." It says "the seventh angel
sounded." The seventh trumpet is the seventh in a series of
judgments. The seventh trumpet is the last in a series of trumpet
judgments, but it is not the last judgment in the larger series;
seven bowl judgments follow.

ANSWER:

Very clever move they do. They take your mind off the "trumpet"
and want you to focus on "judgment." Now Paul in 1 Cor.15 does
not talk about "judgment" - he talks about "the last trump" and
the church putting on immortality at that time. See it friends in
1 Cor.15:51-54. The context of Paul has nothing to do with
"judgment" - he is not speaking about any "judgments" of God on
the world. But the fundamentalists here want to get your mind off
"resurrection" and "last trumpet" and on the judgments. You need
to keep your mind focussed - Keith Hunt

Quote:

The "last trumpet" of I Corinthians 15:52 is singular, referring
to one judgment, not a sequence of seven. Ellicott notes, "There
are no sufficient grounds for supposing that there is here any
reference to the seventh Apocalyptic trumpet (Rev. xi. 15), or to
the seventh and last trumpet" (Ellicott, p.325). 

ANSWER

Again, they want you to focus on "judgments" where Paul does not
focus at all. Judgment is not the topic - resurrection is the
topic period. What the book of Revelation may add in amplifying
the "last trumpet" mentioned in that book is for that book of
prophecy. Here Paul is only discussing "resurrection" - Keith
Hunt

Quote:

Henry Thiessen agrees:

"If he had thought of this trumpet as one of seven, he would
undoubtedly have said something like the following: "For when the
trumpets will be sounded and the time comes for the last one to
sound, the dead in Christ shall be raised." At any rate, there is
no ground for identifying the "trump" in I Cor. 15:52 with the
seventh trumpet in Rev. 11:15 (Thiessen, p.56).

ANSWER

First, what a man says has nothing to do with truth. The Bible is
truth, and the Bible "interprets" itself. If you do not let the
Bible interpret itself you can come up with as many ideas as
there are people on earth. 
Second, the sentence given that Paul should have said, or could
have said, is in fact the sentence given. What could be clearer
than "in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP, FOR THE
TRUMP SHALL SOUND..." Paul is saying exactly what the guy above
think he should have said. The guy is just playing with words,
you may say a sentence a little different than I may put it, but
at the end of the day, BOTH sentences are saying the same thing.
this is the game of "semantics of words" the funny-mentals are
playing, just to confuse you again, and get your mind off the
plain truth that Paul is talking about "the last trump" - pure
and simple. So Paul KNEW there was going to be MORE than ONE
trumpet sound at the last days. He does not tell us anywhere in
all of his writings HOW he came to know that fact, but obviously
he KNEW IT! Maybe when he was being taught directly by Christ
(Galatians 2) of through the Spirit, he was told. He was NOT
inspired to write down for us anything to do with the OTHER
trumpet sounds, that was for the apostle John to do in the book
of Revelation. Paul was only inspired to talk about the LAST
trump and the resurrection of the saints at THAT time. But the
last trump, the very phrase, must mean there are other trumpet
sound before the last ONE. If clear English does not mean that
then words and sentences have no meaning and you may as well
throw the Bible out the window, and everything is for grabs. But
the Bible does mean what it says in such clear phrases as "the
last trump" - it is the last, not the first, not .... the
whatever, but it is the LAST! 
Notice Thiessen is not even sure about the argument he has just
put forth, for he says, "At any rate....." and then gives you a
blank statement that you do not have to acquaint the "last trump"
of Paul with Revelation 11:15. Such is the fancy arguments of
men. What men tell you has nothing to do with the truth of the
Bible. The truth of the Bible stands on its own, the Bible
INTERPRETS itself. You do not need a great PhD from some
"theological" school to understand the Bible. Jesus said, "I
thank you Father that you have hid these things from the wise and
prudent and have revealed them unto babes." If you have the mind
of a child and you let the Bible interpret itself, you can
understand more of what the Bible teaches than ten thousand
fellows with their PhD's in theology, who are not being a child
in understanding.

Quote:
 
In addition, if the seventh trumpet in Revelation 11:15 and the
last trumpet in I Corinthians 15:52 are supposed to reference the
same thing, why do many more months of judgment follow the
supposed last trumpet in Revelation 11?

ANSWER

Such a statement is putting ideas into your mind, as IF they are
a fact. They want to get you to agree with them, just off the
cuff, just from a statement they say, hoping of course you
already have smooched up to them in certain "theology" ideas,
looking to the "respect of men" that give these guys "honor"
within the large Christian "fundamental" world already. 
The truth of the matter is that if  you read the story flow of
Revelation you will see that the "judgments" to come at the sound
of the last trumpet CAN ALL TAKE PLACE IN ONE LITERAL DAY. IT
ONLY TAKES SECONDS FOR GOD TO POUR OUT PLAGUES AND THE SEVEN LAST
VIALS FULL OF THE ANGER OF THE LORD. THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON IN
MODERN WARFARE CAN ALL HAPPEN IN ONE DAY. THE ARMIES OF THE BEAST
AND THE ARMIES OF THE EAST ARE ALREADY IN THAT AREA OF THE WORLD,
AT THE LAST DAYS. SEE MY FULL STUDY OF THE BOOK OF REVELATION IN
"THE NEW TESTAMENT BIBLE STORY."
The fundamentalists have here argued from a wrong understanding
of the events to take place at the LAST trump.


Quote:

TRUMPETS IN CORINTHIANS AND THESSALONIANS

In looking at 1 Corinthians 15:52, it is clear the context of
this passage is the church age, while the context of Revelation
11 is judgment during the Tribulation. 

ANSWER

That is what they want you to believe, to hold their "7 year
tribulation and rapture in the middle" teaching. The truth is
BOTH passages are to do with the "church." If you read the
context of 1 Cor.15:52 it is certainly to do with the dead and
living saints being made immortal. Now, look at the context of
Revelation 11:15, read it friends, move on to verse 18. It is
talking about the rise of the dead and rewards given to God's
prophets and saints. It is ALSO to do with the "church." It is
the SEVENTH trumpet, and the other SIX trumpets have ALREADY been
mentioned as having taken place BEFORE we get to chapter 11 and
verse 15. How simple it is, a child can see it. Both the trump of
Paul in 1 Cor.15 and the LAST or seventh trumpet her in
Revelation 11 concerns the CHURCH - the SAINTS!

     
Quote:


First Corinthians 15:52 better harmonizes with 1 Thessalonians
4:16 NASB, which says, "The Lord Himself will descend from heaven
with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the
trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first." Both
passages speak of the rapture, and judgment is absent from both.
The trumpets in both are the last or final command that the Lord
gives to the church, resulting in the translation of all
believers. J. Dwight Pentecost cites the following reasons as to
why the "last trumpet" in 1 Corinthians 15:52 and the "trumpet"
of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 are different from any of the trumpet
judgments in Revelation.

ANSWER

I'll tackle Dwight Pentecost guy in a moment. Yes, the passages
in 1 Cor.15 and 1 Thes.4 are talking about the SAME TIME, the
LAST trumpet when the dead and living saints will be made
immortal, resurrected or changed in the split-second of the
twinkling of an eye. So "judgment" is not found in 1 Cor. 15 and
1 Thes. 4 - judgment on the world and nations. Does it have to
be? Does EVERYTHING regarding the whole truth of the whole scene
of the last trump, have to be IN EVERY passage regarding the last
trumpet sound? Who says God must follow what man thinks how He
should put it! Who is man to tell the Lord what to say and when
to say it and how often He must say it. Who is man to tell God to
follow man's rules. The Eternal does not bow to the dictates of
man. God will write other things to add to the same event He
wrote about in another book, AS HE SEES FIT! 
The book of Revelation is a JUDGMENT book as any child can see.
The passages in 1 Cor,15:52 and 1 Thes.4:16 are passages of HOPE
and ENCOURAGEMENT and PROMISE, for the saints, for the Church of
God. Those passages have nothing to do with "judgment" but with
promise for the saints of God. Revelation 11:15-19 is not ONLY
promise for the saints BUT ALSO the truth that at this same time
of the seventh and last trumpet, is also the JUDGMENT of the
world and the nations upon it. 
God often in His word does NOT put ALL truth regarding an event
to come in all passages on that event. That is why we have THREE
Gospels that are similar in many ways, but also DIFFERENT, with
one adding this or putting the same event or discourse in a
slightly different way. Hence only by putting all three Gospels
TOGETHER is the FULL truth knowable. It is the principle that God
uses over and over again in the Holy Bible - here a little, there
a little. God has deliberately written His word so, that those
who will not search the Scriptures for all that is written on a
subject, will FALL and be SNARED, taken in the net of DECEPTION.

Okay now for Dwight Pentecost

Quote:

(1) The trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15:52... sounds before the wrath
of God descends, while... the chronology of Revelation indicates
that the trumpet in Revelation 11:15 sounds at the end of the
time of wrath.... 

ANSWER

Wow what a HUGE mistake Pentecost makes here. I wonder sometimes
if these fellows read the whole Bible, or if their memory was so
short it could not remember one verses from the next verse.
First, there is no "wrath" of God mentioned in 1 Cor.15. We have
seen 1 Cor. 15 is not about "wrath" of anything. It is clearly
the facts, the hope, the encouragement, the promise, of the
RESURRECTION period! See if you can find the word "wrath" in 1
Cor.15. If you do make sure you email me and tell me where it is.
Pentecost tells you this trumpet sounds BEFORE the WRATH of God
descends! Now once more you go and read 1 Cor.15 and email me
where it is written there that this trump sounds BEFORE the WRATH
of God descends. Have fun, finding it. Oh, no good trying to tell
Pentecost he was wrong, the guy is dead and does not have to
worry about me or you showing him his mistake. He's putting ideas
into your head that are NOT THERE!! How's that for honest Bible
research? It's why I've told you a number of times on this
Website, you do not have to be scared of guys with PhD's in
theology, or ones held up by millions as some "great theologian."

Now, let's move to Revelation 11:15. Pentecost man tells you the
trumpet here sounds at the end of the time of wrath. Really now.
I think Pentecost guy stopped reading the book at chapter 11:15.
If he had not he would have found chapter 14:14-20 "great
winepress of the WRATH of God." Then we have chapter 19:15 "he
treadeth the winepress of the fierceness of the WRATH of the
Almighty God." BOTH passages are to do with the very VISIBLE
return of Christ. So at the sound of this seventh trumpet, the
saints are rewarded, the dead are judged (chap.11:15) and the
WRATH of God WILL CONTINUE upon the nations of this earth as
Christ comes. The coming of Christ in glory, with a shout of the
angel, with the trump of God, when the dead are raised and the
living changed, takes place at the very NOISY and LOUD coming of
Christ (1 Thes. 4:13-18) and at that time God's WRATH CONTINUES
as we have seen in Revelation 14:14-20 and 19:11-16.
Is it not possible that God can pour out WRATH before Christ
returns visibly and noisily, as in the 6 previous trumpets of
Revelation, and then STILL CONTINUE to pour out WRATH as and
after Christ, with the saints, returns to earth? YES OF COURSE
GOD CAN DO THIS. HE IS GOD! Dwight Pentecost was not God, and
Pentecost HAD IT WRONG as to the duration of the WRATH of God.

Quote:

(2) The trumpet that summons the church is called the trump of
God, while the seventh trump is an angel's trumpet.... 

ANSWER

Big deal! The last seven vials are done by angels (see Revelation
16:1) BUT they are STILL called "the WRATH of God upon the earth"
(verse 1 also).
The silly arguments men come up with BLOWS me away! The trumpets
of God are HIS trumpets, even if angels blow them! Why do you
think God created angels, just to stand around His throne and
praise His name, while plucking on harps? That's what a  billion
or more people have been told the saints will do for eternity.
The truth of the Bible is vastly different.


Quote:

(3) The trumpet for the church is singular.... 


ANSWER

Another big deal .... well old Pentecost guy thought so. The
"singular" of words does not prove truth. Even the plural of
words proves not truth. The word Sabbath in Mat.28:1 (translated
"week" in the KJV) is in the plural - weeks or sabbaths. Some
have tries to use this verse to prove there were TWO Sabbaths in
that week of the last Passover when Christ died. But the Greek
word "sabbaths" is often plural in other places, where it is
obvious one sabbath was meant. The Greek often contains the
definite article "the" in places where it makes no sense and is
actually a horrible word structure of the sentence if used. New
Testament Greek was the "common Greek" of the everyday people,
and like much English in the use of everyday people in Britain,
it is not the "Queen's English" by any means. So the "singular"
argument is grabbing at straws, for a desperation to hold a
teaching of fundamentalists folly.
  
Quote:

(4) In 1 Thessalonians 4 the voice associated with the sounding
of the trumpet summons the dead and the living and consequently
is heard before the resurrection. In the Revelation, while a
resurrection is mentioned (11:12), the trumpet does not sound
until after the resurrection, showing us that two different
events must be in view. 

ANSWER

Wwwhhhaaattt!! Now Pentecost shows a classic example of making
the Bible say anything you want it to say. The resurrection of
11:12 is about the resurrection of ONLY the two witnesses. See it
for yourself, just read verses 1 to 13. This is the resurrection
of the CONTEXT, and the context is the two witnesses that have
been killed and their bodies lie in the streets of Jerusalem. To
put this specific resurrection (which does not say it is to
immortality, it could well be a resurrection to physical life and
God moves them in a cloud to the first heaven, from their enemies
who behold it all happening) into the context of the resurrection
of 1 Cor.15 and 1 Thes.4 is playing with the Bible in ways that
the Bible itself does not play with. Nothing in this context
supports the two witnesses' resurrection with the general
resurrection of the saints which is to happen at the sound of the
LAST TRUMP, which in the book of Revelation is to take place in
verse 15, AFTER the two witnesses have been resurrected.

Yes indeed, TWO resurrections are mentioned here in Revelation
11, but NOT as Pentecost fellow wants you to believe. The TRUMPET
sounds for the "dead, that they should be judged and rewards of
thy servants the prophets and to the saints" at the sound of the
SEVENTH angel TRUMPET sound, which is the LAST trumpet sound in
the book of Revelation, which then IS the last trump of Paul in 1
Cor.15, and the same trump as Paul again in 1 Thes.4.
It is just that simple to put all these verses together, a young
child can do it.

Quote:

(5) The trumpet in 1 Thessalonians issues in blessing, in life.
in glory, while the trumpet in Revelation issues in judgment upon
the enemies of God. 

ANSWER

Once more let me say, I have to say for the arguments of
fundamentalists like Dwight Pentecost, are so weak and silly,
they are amazing for their dumbness! God does not have to list
ALL that takes place at the LAST trump in EVERY passage of
Scripture. We would not three Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke,
nay include John also, we would have had God just inspire ONE
large Gospel, containing all that was done and said, that takes
FOUR Gospels to relate to us. God writes it in bits and pieces so
we have to put it together like a jigsaw puzzle; try to force the
pieces into the wrong place and you get a wrong picture, and in
this case, wrong ideas of prophecy; in other cases even more
important, wrong ideas, hence false ideas, of SALVATION! 
Even then Revelation is not JUST about "judgment" but it also
contains BLESSINGS for the prophets and saints of God. But it
seems people read over this, as Pentecost did, to uphold their
teaching of a secret rapture in the middle of a 7 year
tribulation, that nowhere is supported by the truth of the
passages of the Bible.

Quote:

(6) In the Thessalonian passage the trumpet sounds "in a moment,
in the twinkling of an eye." In Revelation 10:7 the indication is
that the seventh trumpet shall sound over a continued period of
time, probably for the duration of the judgments that fall under
it, for John speaks of the angel that shall "begin to sound"....

ANSWER

Once more one passage tells you that AN EVENT at the sound of the
LAST trump will (1 Cor.15; 1 Thes.4) take ONLY A SPLIT SECOND to
fulfil. The RESURRECTION is that quick, it is immediately as the
sound of the trumpet goes out. It is the FIRST thing to happen.
John saying "in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when
he shall sound, the mystery of God should be finished..." is not
telling us SPECIFICALLY HOW LONG the trumpet will sound. Some get
the idea the trumpet will be as like a man blows a trumpet, who
can only blow a trumpet as long as his breath hold out, which is
not very long at all, try blowing into straw and see how long you
can blow for. The angels of God can blow the LAST (or any) trump
for as long as they or God tells them to blow; the angels are not
dependant on physical air to blow a trumpet; many forget that. We
know from Paul that when that trump sounds, it is in the
twinkling of the eye that the resurrection of the saints takes
place. The angels will go forth to one end of heaven to the other
and lead them to where Jesus is in the clouds of heaven (see
Mat.24:30-31 and 1 Thes.4:13-18). And notice Mat.24:29, all this
is AFTER the tribulation of those days. The trumpet may well blow
for as long as God desires it, to bring to pass all that this
trumpet signifies - the last plagues, the winepress of the wrath
of God, the battle of Armageddon, and the Lord Jesus becoming
King of kings and Lord of lords (Rev.19"11-16).  


Quote:

(7) The trumpet in 1 Thessalonians is distinctly for the church.
Since God is dealing with Israel in particular, and Gentiles in
general, in the tribulation, this seventh trumpet, which falls in
the period of the tribulation, could not have reference to the
church without losing the distinctions between the church and
Israel. 


ANSWER

All a bunch of garbage, from people who do not understand God is
dealing with not only Israel and the Gentiles BUT ALSO the
church, during the great tribulation. Jesus made it clear in
Matthew 24 (29-31) that the saints are NOT taken to meet Christ
in the clouds UNTIL AFTER the tribulation of those days, (now add
1 Thes.4:13-18) and the previous verses tell you many Christians
will be persecuted and even killed during that great tribulation
of the last days. The saints do not meet with Christ until after
the tribulation of those days - Mat.24:29-31. 
Pentecost's argument is based upon a false "premise" - you get a
wrong foundation and the next step is to build another false
teaching from the premise of a false teaching to begin with. You
end up going in circles, all built upon a false premise to start
with.


Quote:

(8) The passage in Revelation depicts a great earthquake in which
thousands are slain, and the believing remnant that worships God
is stricken with fear. In the Thessalonian passage there is no
earthquake mentioned....

ANSWER

Once more, again and again we see it in the fundamentalists
folly, just because all truth and facts are not given in any one
passage concerning the same event, they say it is not the same
event, so they can hold to their false doctrine of a 7 year
tribulation (which is taken from a false understanding of
Daniel's 70 week prophecy in Daniel 9) - a false premise, and so
a false middle of this last week of 7 years, rapture of the
church to heaven. Which then leads to another false doctrine that
the second coming of Christ will be in TWO phases, one invisible
and the other visible.
God often gives a little here and a little there, hence He does
not have to tell you a "great earthquake" will take place in
every passage dealing with the same time event. It is a way of
explaining events that the Lord uses to deliberately keep people
blinded to truth, for as shocking as it is to fundamentalists,
God is NOT trying to save the whole world in this present age. If
He was, then common logic would tell you that Satan is winning
the battle, hands down. Such is not the case. God has a plan of
salvation as I've expounded to you in depth on this Website. 

Quote:


(9) While the church will be rewarded at the time of the rapture,
yet the reward given to "thy servants the prophets, and to the
saints" cannot be that event. The rewarding mentioned in
Revelation 11:18 is seen to take place on the earth after the
second advent of Christ, following the judgment on His enemies.
Since the church is rewarded in the air, following the rapture,
these must be two distinct events (Pentecost, pp.189-91).

ANSWER

A false premise, giving Pentecost and his kind, more false
doctrines. There is no "rapture" of the saints during the middle
of a 7 year tribulation at the end time (the last 7 years of this
age they would tell you). So now with a false premise they cannot
accept Revelation 11:18 and its context is talking about the same
thing as 1 Cor.15 and 1 Thes.4 and Mat.24:30-31). Did you notice
Pentecost saying "The rewarding mentioned in Revelation 11:18 is
seen to take PLACE ON THE EARTH after the second advent of
Christ, following the judgment on His enemies...."
Most will read right over Pentecost's words, most will NEVER look
up the passage in Revelation. Hence they like Pentecost will
continue in blinded deceived folly. Now, you will not do that
will you? Take out your Bible and read Revelation 11:15-19. Now,
if you can find the words where it says "the saints to be
rewarded are ON THE EARTH" or anything to uphold that the saints
are rewarded on the earth, then email me and tell me where it is.
This is all just the words of Dwight Pentecost putting ideas in
your mind, knowing most people will not take the time to read the
passage for themselves. If you take the time to read the rest of
the book of Revelation you will see the saints are rewarded on
the SEA OF GLASS (try chap.15:1-2 for starters) and well add
chapt.19:6-9 with 1 Thes.4:13-18 and Mat.24:29-31. There is
nothing in rev.11:15-19 to contradict that the saints will be
rewarded in the clouds on the sea of glass, as they meet Jesus in
the air, at His coming at the last trump, which is after the
great tribulation of those days.

Quote: 

THE SIGNAL TO GATHER

The last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:52 is the final command that
Christ provides for His church when He sends the signal to gather
us together for the meeting in the sky that we know as the
rapture. The view that equates the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians
15:52 with the seventh trumpet of Revelation does not harmonize
in any way.

THOMAS ICE

ANSWER

INDEED  THE  LAST  TRUMP  IS  THE  SOUND  THAT  WILL  RAISE  THE 
DEAD  SAINTS  TO  IMMORTALITY, THAT  WILL  CHANGE  THE  LIVING 
SAINTS  TO  IMMORTALITY.  IT  IS  THE  TRUMPET  SOUND  THAT  WILL
SEND  THE  ANGELS  TO  GATHER  THE  ELECT  FROM  ONE  END  OF 
HEAVEN  TO  THE  OTHER  AND  TO  BRING  THEM  TO  CHRIST  IN  THE
AIR,  IN  THE  CLOUDS,  TO  GIVE  THEM  THEIR  REWARDS,  AFTER 
THE  TRIBULATION  OF  THOSE  DAYS,  AND  THEN  TO  DESCEND  WITH 
CHRIST  TO  THE  MOUNT  OF  OLIVES,  AS  THE  BATTLE  OF 
ARMAGEDDON  DEFEATS  THE  ARMIES  OF  THIS  WORLD (Mat.24:29-31;
1 Cor.15; 1 Thes.4:13-18; Rev. 11:15-19;  15:1-2;  19:1-16;
14:14-20; 16:1-21).

NOW  THAT  IS  HARMONY  AND  A  CHILD  CAN  UNDERSTAND  IT!!

     
"That you Father, that you have hid these things from the wise
and the prudent and have revealed them unto babes" - Jesus Christ

                        ..........................


Keith Hunt - April 2009 


 
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