Taken from a forum debate:
Okay Steve, concerning my attitude towards those I consider
enemies of the Gospel of Christ. I do not know how much "good
news" some of God's true ministers may have considered it when
God's enemies to truth and righteousness "bit the dust" - I do
not know their minds.
It may have been bitter sweet for them. And then again it may
have been very good news. I will give you one example in my
life, that it was good news God took action for me, but I was
SHOCKED and it was bitter sweet for me....there was sadness in it
and there was rejoicing...sadness that the person did not REPENT,
and rejoicing that the end result of it all was a transformation
in many lives.
But before I get to that example, we'll look at a few from the
Bible. And as I've said I DO NOT KNOW the depths of God, I am
puzzled by Him some times, I look through a glass darkly indeed
as Paul wrote once.
The example of David (after your last post on this, I really did
want to know from God if I had stepped over the line. I just
opened up to the Psalms and I opened up on Psalm 140....quite a
shocker, David towards enemies of God), and if you think he had
an excuse for such words because he was also a "bloody man" -
then wait until we see what PAUL wrote in the New Testament.
The example of Elisha. 2 Kings 2:19-25. He's going on his way and
these bratty kids come out (42 of them it seems) and start
calling him names, making fun of him ...."get along you bald
head, get along bald head." Elisha turns and CURSES THEM IN GOD'S
Now, we do not know exactly what his curse was, but it was a
curse, and usually curses ain't good things. Kids often do stupid
things, making fun of another kid or an adult. We could say why
on earth did not Elisha just "let it go" - kids can be foolish at
What harm could they have done to Elisha with just "name calling"
- but this MAN OF GOD, turns around and CURSES them!!
It was in God's name he did this, so he fully expected God would
take care of the problem in SOME way. It does not say he knew the
way the Lord would take care of the matter, then again depending
on his curse, maybe he DID know.
Whatever the case, God DOES ANSWER Elisha....He sends TWO SHE
BEARS out of the woods and they TEAR UP forty-two kids...little
children (v.23). Tear-up? Did God just have them bitten and
scratched up, or does it mean He had them killed? Does not
specifically say, but whichever, the first would be bad enough, the
second (killing them)......well that just BLOWS MY MIND.
Yes, I simply do NOT know the DEPTHS of God at times. And if you
believe as I teach that Jesus was the God of the Old Testament,
then it was THIS PERSON who later became Jesus that DID THIS
Either way, you simply do not know the REAL Jesus, as you think
you know Him. He is a lot more COMPLEX than we humans think. As
I've said, I am STUNNED at times with the actions of God, left
looking through a glass darkly.
Now to the mind-bending example of the apostle Paul, under, yes,
the New Testament.
Galations 1:6-9. If you read it in the AMPLIFIED BIBLE, you will
get the SHOCKING truth. Paul was against those who PERVERTED the
Gospel. Do I believe Herbert Armstrong and Meredith and Flurry
and OTHERS perverted and still PERVERT the Gospel? YOU BET I DO!!
I believe they have become enemies to TRUTH and RIGHTEOUSNESS,
continuing to lead THOUSANDS into false ideas and into a CULTIC
mind-set, of the old Worlwide Church of God and Herbert Armstrong
Paul had his enemies of the Gospel, who perverted the Gospel.
Gal.1:8, "But if WE or an ANGEL from heaven should preach to you
a gospel CONTRARY to and DIFFERENT from that which we preached
to you, let HIM be ACCURSED (anathama, DEVOTED TO DESTRUCTION,
DOOMED TO ETERNAL PUNISHMENT)!
Verse 9, "As we said before, so I now SAY AGAIN, If ANYONE is
preaching to you a gospel different from or contrary to that
which you received from us, let HIM be ACCUSRED (anathama,
DEVOTED TO DESTRUCTION, DOOMED TO ETERNAL PUNISHMENT)!
Wow!!! You talk about pulling no punches with Paul at times.
THIS IS IT!!
Now Paul was a man MIGHTILY used of God, personally taught by
Christ. You might say then he had the authority and the "know" to
say such words to those perverting the Gospel and leading people
into falsehood. Paul is using words stronger than just wishing
them physically dead. I mean I am taken back, looking through a
glass darkly with such words coming from Paul.
I have NEVER COME CLOSE to saying those words in regards to
Herbert Armstrong, Ted Armstrong, Meredith, Flurry, and others,
who I say did and are perverting the Gospel, and who did and are
still doing for those like Meredith and Flurry (still alive as I
write in 2004), leading people into false teachings and cultic
Was Paul happy or rejoicing in having to say those words against
false ministers? Much sadness I would say, but with some
rejoicing that God would take care of them, take them out of the
way, so people would escape the falsehood of their so-called
There had to be BITTER-SWEET in the words of Paul and in his
mind, when saying those words towards perverters of the Gospel.
Now, to my example. I have tried, especially from 1982 when
called and ordained to the ministry of Jesus Christ, to serve
Him with all my heart, and in the CORRECT WAY, in my life and in
my teaching, serving and helping wherever I could.
In the winter of 1989/90 my wife and I left British Columbia, and
went for that winter to Florida, where my wife's mother lived
during the winter. I had been working WITH the CGI, and Des Burke
(now recently dead) in Penticton for a few years. When we walked
into the CGI congregation in Clearwater, Florida, we walked into
a HORNETS NEST. The church was SPLIT IN TWO, over their last CGI
minister, who had just been transfered by his company to another
part of the USA.
I tried to help, with kind words of people having more love and
patience, etc. The DEACON and his wife, who were AGAINST the
previous minister, went on the RAMPAGE, accusing me of trying to
take over the congregation etc. etc. Now, we had a congregation
DIVIDED on TWO points....divided on the previous minister, and
divided on me. Half the people were against me and half were okay
Ron Dart (then with CGI in Texas) told the previous minister to "get
back" and try to solve the problem. He arrived the second
Sabbath after we had arrived in Clearwater. He gave his "speech"
that Sabbath, and once more all hell broke out from this deacon
and his wife and their supporters. It was all a terrible scene.
The minister went home, now in another State, and nothing was
This deacon and his wife continued to vocally be against myself
and my wife. I tried to make peace with them. I wrote to Dart
telling him of the situation and the division, and that it was
mainly the misguided doings of this deacon and his wife. I wrote
to this deacon and his wife, as per Matthew 18. Over time many
who had been poisoned by this man and woman, came to see my wife
and I were not enemies but helpers of the CGI. They came and
appologized to us.
When Ron Dart came down for Passover in 1991, and they saw he and
I were friends, MOST warmly accepted myself. But that deacon and
his wife would NOT relent in their evil within that congregation.
I wrote one more final letter to them. In it I said God would
take care of the situation, that I had prayed He would. I told
them I wanted them to see the error of their ways and repent, but
if they did not, then I had asked God to render the situation
My wife and I returned to Canada after that Passover of 1991. In
December of 1991, we went back for a holiday (as we had bought a
small duplex and one side was empty). At our FIRST Sabbath in
that SAME congregation, we were met at the parking lot with OPEN
ARMS, people just loving to see us again. I was somewhat taken
back my the VERY WARM welcome I received. THEN one of the leading
men said, "Have you not heard the news?" I answered, "No, what
news?" He then went on to tell me that it was not long after I
had returned to Canada, that the evil trouble-maker deacon, from
good normal health, was smitten with CANCER from the TOP of his
head to the BOTTOM of his feet!!
He was DEAD within weeks!!
I was STUNNED!!!! Yes, I had asked God to take care of the
situation. I had no thoughts of the DRAMATIC way in which God
WOULD TAKE CARE OF THE MATTER!! I was stunned to say the least.
The deacons wife was as CHANGED in attitude as you would ever
want. She was now HUMBLE, quiet, respectful, and totally another
woman. The congregation was at PEACE, harmony, and all that you
would wish a congregation to be. All there this time accepted me
with out-stretched arms of love.
Since then I have never prayed such a prayer. I do not pray it
for Flurry or Meredith, and others, but that does not mean to
say I will not have some comfort in spirit when they are six feet
God at times just ain't they way we would think of Him, I am
puzzled by some things concering Him in the Bible, and in some
things in todays life I live. I still look through a glass darkly
This is my last comment on this matter, I will not debate the
subject any more.