BIBLE CONTRADICTIONS #7
6. MAN, In Relation to the Future—Death
Men must die.
So death passed upon all men, for that
all have sinned.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die.
Some will not die.
If a man keep my saying, he shall never
And whosoever liveth and believeth in
me shall never die.
We shall not all sleep, but we shall all
1 Corinthians 15:51
We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the
Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. . . .
The dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are
alive and remain shall be caught up together with them
in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
The two texts from John refer not to physical but to spiritual death. The Pauline quotations contemplate the righteous who shall be living on the earth at the time of Christ's second coming. These will not indeed literally "die," but will be "changed"; that is, undergo a transformation equivalent to death, putting off mortality and putting on immortality. All will experience either death, or what is tantamount to it. As Alford says: "The sleep of death cannot be predicated of all of us, but the resurrection-change cam''
Revelation 2:11 also denotes not physical death, but the final punishment of the incorrigibly wicked. It is fitly termed "death," as being an eternal separation from hope and happiness, and an exclusion from all which is worthy of the name "life."
Lazarus not to die.
Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick. When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
He did die.
Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe.
"This sickness is not unto death"; that is, the ultimate result will not be "death," but "the glory of God." And so it proved, for many of the Jews who witnessed the raising of Lazarus from the dead, believed on the Son of God.212 Thus the Father was glorified in the Son.
Man dies like a beast.
For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast.
His death different.
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
212 Compare John 11:45.
In one aspect of the case, there is no distinction between the death of man and that of beasts. Both are uncertain as to the time of it; both are powerless to prevent it; the physical phenomena, in each case, are much the same. In these respects there is a very close resemblance, and this may be the relation of which the author is speaking.
Or, with many commentators, we may say that Solomon raises and answers objections as Paul does so often. Thus the passage in question (Ecclesiastes 3:18-20), beginning "I said in mine heart," etc., may be merely an objection which, being suggested to the mind of Solomon, he proceeds to discuss and solve. Dr. Davidson 213 thinks that the author brings before his readers doubts suggested by observation and reflection, or in some cases presented to him by others. Prof. Stuart: When we view the author in the light of proposing the doubts and difficulties which perplexed his own mind, and sooner or later as solving them, then we meet with no serious embarrassment in interpreting the book.
Prof. Tayler Lewis, in Lange, takes the words, "I said in mine heart concerning," etc., as equivalent to, "I deduced this inference from men's lives, I put this interpretation upon their conduct, that, in their own view, they are beasts." It is man's judgment upon himself, as pronounced by his own conduct. It is the language of his life.
A terribly severe, but no less just, estimate of man, from a point of view apparently identical with his own.
Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
2 Timothy 1:10
It is appointed unto men once to die.
"Hath abolished death"; hath taken away its sting and terror, so that it is no longer death, as a grim and terrible monster, but a kind angel come to conduct the believer home to heaven. Alford: "By the death of Christ, death has lost his sting; and is henceforth of no more account; consequently the act of natural death is evermore treated by the Lord himself and his apostles as of no account; and its actual and total abolition foretold."
Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
God only, immortal.
The King of kings, and Lord of lords;
who only hath immortality.
1 Timothy 6:15-16
213 Introd. to Old Testament, ii. 385.
The first text is a strong incidental proof that the soul's "immortal," since it does not die with the body. It is beyond the power of the persecutor. When he has killed the body his fury has expended itself; he can do no more; he cannot reach or harm the soul. The survival of the soul is thus plainly implied and assumed by our Lord.
IT IS THE "SPIRIT" THAT GOES BACK TO THE LORD AS IN ECC. 12:9. BUT THAT DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN THE SPIRIT OF MAN STILL THINKS, TALKS, SPEAKS, WALKS AROUND HEAVEN. THAT IDEA IS FROM THE "IMMORTAL SOUL" TEACHERS, WHICH IS AN ERROR, BROUGHT IN BY THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, WITH AN EVER-BURING HELL FIRE, AND A THIRD PLACE CALLED PURGATORY - Keith Hunt
The second text is interpreted by "mortal-soulists," 214 as denying immortality to all beings except God. Hence it would follow that the angels—Gabriel, and Michael the archangel even—are mortal! And if, as Alford thinks, the above text refers to the Father exclusively, it would also follow that the Lord Jesus himself is mortal!
THERE IS MUCH MORE TO THE QUESTION OF HUMANS BEING "IMMORTAL" ALREADY. THE READER SHOULD STUDY THE STUDY CALLED "DEATH - THEN WHAT?" ON THIS WEBSITE, FOR THE INDEPTH COVERAGE OF THIS TOPIC - Keith Hunt
By parity of reasoning the language employed in Romans 16:27, "God only wise," warrants the inference that God is the only being who possesses wisdom!
The meaning in both cases obviously is that only God possesses the given attribute, inherently and underivedly. Justin Martyr: "He has not this through the will of another, as all the other immortals, but through his own essence." Theodoret: "Immortal by essence, not by participation."
Upon no reasonable interpretation does the passage collide with the derived and dependent immortality of man.
OKAY, THESE VERSES TO NOT CONTRADICT; BUT THE SUBJECT OF MAN BEING CREATED WITH AN IMMORTAL SOUL THAT CONTINUED TO THINK, ACT, WALK, TALK, SEE, ALL IN HEAVEN [IF "GOOD"] OR IN AGONY AS BURNING FOREVER IN HELL-FIRE [IF BAD] IS A MUCH LARGER TOPIC THAN A FEW VERSES ABOVE - Keith Hunt
Men kill the soul.
Joshua took Makkedah, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof he utterly destroyed, them, and all the souls that were therein.
And they smote all the souls that were therein with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying them: there was not any left to breathe.
Cannot kill it.
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
It is scarcely necessary to allude to the fact that our word "soul" is used in two entirely distinct senses. Thus we say, "The soul is immortal," and, alluding to a marine disaster, "Every soul perished." In the latter case, "soul" is synonymous with "person." This secondary meaning of the word may have arisen from the fact that it is the soul of man which gives him personality. Be this as it
214 We use this term, instead of "Thnetopsychites," the name employed by John Damascenus (see Hagenbach's History of Doctrines, i. 221), to designate those who deny the natural immortality of the soul or spirit of man. The term maybe extended to include also the denial of consciousness to the soul in the interval between death and the resurrection. Apparently the first attempt to introduce Thnetopsychism into the Christian church was made, a.d. 248, by certain errorists from Arabia. Compare Eusebius's Ecclesiastical History, Book vi., chap, xxxvii.; and Guericke's Ancient Church, p. 228.
may, the most orthodox theologians employ the term in these widely different senses.
The corresponding Hebrew and Greek terms are used with similar latitude. Thus, according to Fuerst, the Hebrew word "nephesh" sometimes means the soul, ox, spirit; in other cases, an individual, a person, man. Gesenius says, spirit, soul, mind; also a man, person.
In view of this fact, when one text asserts that Joshua "slew all the souls" in a city, and another affirms that man is "not able to kill the soul," we see that here is no discrepancy. The term "soul," in one case, refers to man in his earthly make-up, as we see him; in the other, to the deathless intelligence which survives the dissolution of its tabernacle, the body.
If, as mortal-soulists assert, the soul actually dies with the body, then he who "kills" the latter, in that very act kills the former also. If the Siamese twins are so connected that the death of one involves that of the other, then the murderer who kills Chang, by that very stroke kills Eng likewise. That is, according to the theory we are criticising, man is as really "able to kill the soul" as God is.
IT IS TRUE MAN DOES HAVE A "SPIRIT" IN HIM, OR A LIFE ESSENCE THAT DOES NOT DIE WITH THE BODY BUT GOES BACK TO GOD WHO GAVE IT [ECC. 12:9]; BUT THAT DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN IT CONTINUES TO THINK, TALK, SPEAK, WALK, OF AND BY ITSELF. THE READER NEEDS TO STUDY THE STUDIED CALLED "DEATH - THEN WHAT?" AND "THE SPIRIT IN MAN" - Keith Hunt
I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed, hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
To be acquired.
Who by patient continuance in well
doing seek for glory and honour and
The first passage implies that there is an intelligence, a spirit, in man, which outlives and is not affected by the dissolution of the body. Hence God, after he has killed the body, may cast the soul into hell. It is the immortal part which survives to be thus disposed of.
NOPE, THE VERSE DOES NOT SAY THAT; THAT INTERPRETATION IS BEING READ INTO THE VERSE. THE VERSE SIMPLY MEANS AND SAYS GOD CAN KILL TWO TIMES. ONCE IN THIS LIFE, AND AGAIN FOR UN-REPENTANT SINNERS, INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE, THE SECOND DEATH - REVELATION 20 - Keith Hunt
As to Romans 2:7, a favorite inference of mortal-soulists is this: "Since man is here spoken of as seeking 'immortality' it follows that he does not possess it by nature." To this characteristic sophism, it is sufficient to reply that, as every scholar is aware, the Greek word used here is not "athanasia," immortality, but "aphtharsia," incorruption, 215 and points to that exemption from moral corruption which the saints are "seeking" here, and which they will fully attain in heaven. The passage does not touch the question of man's immortality at all.
IF THE VERSE DOES NOT TOUCH MAN'S IMMORTALITY AT ALL, THEN THE VERSES CANNOT PROVE MAN IS IMMORTAL ALREADY, AND ON PHYSICAL DEATH GOES TO HEAVEN OR HELL-FIRE; IN HEAVEN WALKING, TALKING, SEEING, HEARING, THINKING; IN HELL-FIRE GROANING IN AGONIZING SUFFERING OF SOME KIND FOR ALL ETERNITY - Keith Hunt
215 See Ephesians 6:24, where the same word is translated "sincerity."
His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth not of them.
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
But his flesh upon him shall have pain, and his soul within him shall mourn.
The rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments.
As preliminary to the discussion, we repeat that there is no proof that Job or any of his friends were inspired—divinely commissioned as religious teachers. 216
THAT'S A COP OUT; IT WAS NOT JUST JOB WHO SPOKE THIS WAY ABOUT DEATH - Keith Hunt
Moreover, the ideas of the ancients, particularly in that early age in which Job lived, were very vague and obscure respecting the future state. "Life and immortality" were not "brought to light" till Christ came.
YES TRUE, AND JESUS SAID "NO MAN HAS ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN BUT HE THAT CAME FROM HEAVEN" - GOSPEL OF JOHN - Keith Hunt
Whately, following Warburton, says: "To the Israelites of old Moses had no commission to hold out the hopes and fears of another world, but only a 'land flowing with milk and honey' and long life, and victory, and other temporal rewards. But the 'bringing in of a better hope' by the gospel taught the Christian to 'set his affection on things above, not on things on the earth' and to look for a heavenly Canaan, a land of promise beyond the grave. God's kingdom of old was a kingdom of this world; but Christ's kingdom is 'not of this world.'"217
Dr. Davidson 218 thus sets forth the Hebrew view of the condition of the dead in "sheol," the place of departed spirits: "Their time is passed in a kind of sleep, whence they are only roused by some uncommon occurrence. Thus they are represented as shut up in a land of forgetfulness—dreamy shades almost destitute of consciousness."
Dr. Jahn, in his Biblical Archaeology, 219 gives, as will be seen subsequently, a more attractive view than the foregoing rationalistic one of Dr. Davidson. However, in the most favorable aspect of the case, it must be admitted that the notions of the ancient Israelites respecting the future life were not seldom quite obscure and indefinite. Nor is this strange; for revelation is progressive. There
216 Professor Stuart, speaking of the irrelevant appeals which are made to the Old Testament,
both in and out of the pulpit, and the unsuitable quotations made from it, observes: "Books
of such a peculiar nature as Job and Ecclesiastes, for example, are resorted to with as much
confidence for proof-texts, as if they were all preceptive, and not an account of disputes
and doubts about religions matters."—History of Old Testament Canon, p. 409 (Revised
edition, p. 382).
217 Future State, p. 150.
218 Introd. to Old Testament, ii. 290.
219 Section 314.
is an onward march of doctrine in the Bible, from its beginning to its close. The great truths of the Divinity of the Messiah, the atonement, justification by faith, and human immortality, were imperfectly revealed and crudely held in patriarchal times. Hengstenberg: "As far as the saints of the Old Testament attained in their knowledge, they were quite right; they were only excluded from farther light. But it is error alone which inspiration excludes, not the defect and imperfection of knowledge."
Those early times were the dim dawn of revelation; our age beholds the full radiance of the gospel sun at his meridian height. This consideration explains the apparent disagreement between the New Testament and the Old in regard to the intermediate state.
NO THERE IS NO DISAGREEMENT ABOUT PHYSICAL DEATH BETWEEN THE OLD AND THE NEW TESTAMENT. BOTH TEACH THE SAME THING. THERE IS INDEED A SPIRIT IN MAN THAT GOES BACK TO GOD AT DEATH. BUT THAT SPIRIT DOES NOT FUNCTION WITHOUT A BODY TO FUNCTION IN. WHILE IN THE PHYSICAL BODY, IF THERE IS A HEAD INJURY THAT EFFECTS THE BRAIN [CAN NOT LONGER RECALL ANYTHING IN THE PAST, AS ONE EXAMPLE] THE "SPIRIT" DOES NOT TAKE OVER AND RECALL THE PAST. IF YOU LOOSE A LEG THE SPIRIT IN MAN DOES NOT GIVE YOU A LEG TO WALK ON AS LIKE YOU NEVER LOST A PHYSICAL LEG. EXAMPLES COULD BE ENDLESS. SUCH ARGUMENTS AS ABOVE ARE CONTRIVED TO GET AROUND THE PLAIN OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES THAT PROVE THE SPIRIT IN MAN IS NOT A LIVING, THINKING, SPEAKING, WALKING, HEARING, PERSON IN HEAVEN AT DEATH, OR A MOANING, WAILING, PERSON IN HELL-FIRE FOR ALL ETERNITY - Keith Hunt
Just here the reader will observe that nearly all of the texts adduced by mortal-soulists to prove the unconsciousness of the dead, are taken from the Old Testament and particularly from its poetical books. Now, to go back from noonday to twilight in search of our eschatology—to ignore the plain and dear teachings of the New Testament, and adopt as a basis of doctrine the poetic utterances of a preliminary, rudimental, far less spiritual dispensation—does not indicate the highest wisdom on the part of those who pursue this course. Yet this is the policy adopted by the mortal-soulists in advocating their theory.
AGAIN A WEAK, VERY WEAK ARGUMENT; THE OLD TESTAMENT IS AS INSPIRED AS THE NEW; PAUL SAID, ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD BREATHED. THERE ARE CLEAR VERSES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THAT SHOW PEOPLE [GOOD ONES; CHRISTIAN ONES] DO NOT GO TO HEAVEN AT DEATH. JESUS CAME FROM HEAVEN AND JESUS SAID, NO MAN HAS ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN BUT HE THAT CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN….. HIMSELF. HE SHOULD SURELY KNOW AS HE WAS WITH THE FATHER FROM ETERNITY - Keith Hunt
But let us examine the foregoing texts.
Job 14:21 simply refers to man in his relation to the present life, and asserts that at death he is entirely dissociated from the things of earth; he has no more connection with them. But the very next verse shows that consciousness is not denied to the dead.
AH JOB IS JUST UTTERING TRUTHS OF LIFE AND DEATH, NOT NECESSARILY FOLLOWING EACH OTHER. IF THESE VERSES FOLLOW EACH OTHER, LET'S BE LOGICAL, WHO WOULD WANT SUCH IMMORTALITY? THEY CAN'T RECOGNIZE THEIR CHILDREN, EVEN THE UPS AND DOWNS IN LIFE THEY HAVE; YET HE IS IMMORTAL WITH PAINFUL FLESH [DO YOU STILL HAVE FLESH FOR ALL ETERNAL IMMORTALITY?], AND THE SOUL OR SPIRIT IN MAN IS MOURNING. NOW WHAT KIND OF IMMORTALITY IS THAT? MAYBE YOU WANT TO ARGUE IT IS THE IMMORTALITY OF THE WICKED IN HELL-FIRE; SOME KIND OF FLESH THAT BURN AND CAN HAVE PAIN, AND THE MIND [SOUL, SPIRIT IN MAN] IS MOURNING. SURELY YOU DO NOT FROM THESE TWO VERSES WANT TO ARGUE IT IS THE IMMORTALITY CONTINUING FOR CHRISTIANS AFTER THEIR PHYSICAL DEATH? IF THAT IS WHAT IS ARGUED HERE, THEN I SAY THAT IS SOME STRANGE IMMORTALITY FOR CHRISTIANS AFTER DEATH. HENCE THE AGNOSTICS AND ATHEISTS LAUGH AT THE BIBLE AND PEOPLE WHO MAKE UP SUCH SILLY THEOLOGY IDEAS. NOTICE ALL THE PREVIOUS VERSES FROM VERSE 17. WHEN DOES GOD SEAL UP OUR INIQUITIES [IN GROWING UP? IN OUR 20s? IN OUR 30s? IN OUR 60s?]. DO THE MOUNTAIN FALL, THEN THE ROCKS? OR IS IT SOMETIMES THE ROCK THAN MOVES, AND THEN MAYBE SOMETIME THE WHOLE MOUNTAIN. THE WATERS WASH AWAY THE STONES….THEN AFTER THAT DOES GOD WASH AWAY THE THINGS OUT OF THE DUST OF THE EARTH? THEN AFTER THOSE THING, GOD DESTROYS THE HOPE OF MEN? OR DOES THE HOPE OF MEN COME DOWN FOR WHATEVER REASON BEFORE THE WATER WEARS THE STONES? DOES THE WATER HAVE TO WEAR THE STONES BEFORE GOD CAN WASH AWAY THINGS WHICH GROW IN THE DUST? OR CAN IT BE THE OTHER WAY AROUND? OF COURSE IT CAN!
VERSES 21 AND 22 ARE NOT CONSECUTIVE; THEY CONTRASTIVE!
JOB IS CONTRASTING DEATH AGAINST THE CONTRAST OF THAT WHICH IS OFTEN [GENERAL STATEMENT] IN THIS PHYSICAL LIFE. IN THIS PHYSICAL LIFE WE OFTEN HAVE PAIN IN THE FLESH FROM THIS OR THAT; AND OUR MENTAL LIVES [INNER SOULS OR SPIRIT] OFTEN MOURNS, AGAIN FROM THIS OR THAT CIRCUMSTANCE. THESE VERSES ARE NO MORE CONSECUTIVE THAN THE MOUNTAINS FALLING [AN EARTHQUAKE] THAN THE ROCKS BEING REMOVED. A MOUNTAIN IS A MOUNTAIN; A ROCK IS A ROCK; A ROCK FROM A MOUNTAIN CAN FALL BEFORE A MOUNTAIN IS REMOVED; A MOUNTAIN CAN BE REMOVED BEFORE A ROCK FALLS.
THESE VERSES ARE STATEMENTS OF FACTS - NOT STATEMENTS OF A MUST BE ORDER - A MUST BE ONE, TWO, THREE, ORDER.
JOB IN VERSE 22 IS STATING WHAT MANY PEOPLE GO THROUGH IN THIS PHYSICAL LIFE - PAIN IN THE FLESH AND MOURNING IN THE SPIRIT, WITH THE CONTRAST OF DEATH IN VERSE 21 - FREEDOM FROM PHYSICAL PAIN AND MENTAL ANGUISH IN THE PEACE OF DEATH, WHERE SUCH PHYSICAL THINGS HAVE NO EFFECT ON YOU.
NOTICE, STARTING WITH VERSE 10, "BUT MAN [NOT HIS BODY] - MAN DIETH, AND WASTETH AWAY: YES, MAN [NOT HIS BODY] GIVES UP THE SPIRIT [YES IT GOES BACK TO GOD WHO GAVE IT - ECC. 12:9], AND WHERE IS HE?…..SO MAN [NOT HIS BODY] LIES DOWN, AND RISES NOT; TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, THEY [NOT THEIR BODY] SHALL NOT AWAKE, NOR BE RAISED OUT OF THEIR SLEEP! O THAT THOU WOULD HIDE ME IN THE GRAVE, THAT YOU WOULD KEEP ME SECRET, UNTIL YOUR WRATH IS PAST [THE GREAT DAY OF THE LORD IN BIBLE PROPHECY, ABOUT THE LAST YEAR OF THIS AGE BEFORE JESUS RETURNS]; THAT YOU WOULD APPOINT ME A SET TIME, AND REMEMBER ME [NOT MY BODY]. IF A MAN DIE, SHALL HE LIVE AGAIN? ALL THE DAYS OF MY APPOINTED TIME WILL I WAIT, TILL MY CHANGE COME [THE RESURRECTION TO IMMORTAL LIFE - 1 COR. 15]. YOU SHALL CALL AND I [NOT MY BODY] WILL ANSWER THEE: YOU WILL HAVE A DESIRE TO THE WORK OF YOUR HANDS" [VERSES 12-15].
GOD WILL FINISH THE WORK OF SALVATION WITH HIS CHILDREN, WHEN HE CALLS AT THE TIME OF THE RESURRECTION; WHEN THE SAINTS [NOT THEIR BODY, AS A WHOLE SPIRIT PERSON] SHALL BE CALLED BACK TO A THINKING, HEARING, TALKING, WALKING, SEEING, PERSON, THOUGH NOW IN IMMORTAL SPIRIT FORM, AT THE COMING OF CHRIST, WHEN THE RESURRECTION OR INSTANT CHANGE COMES TO THE SAINTS OF ALL AGES.
DEATH AND THE RESURRECTION TOPICS ARE COVERED IN FULL IN-DEPTH DETAIL ON THIS WEBSITE - Keith Hunt
As to the next citation, Stuart and Hengstenberg take it as the statement of an objection which is afterwards refuted. The latter says: "The manner of the scriptures is to let doubts and murmurings have free and full expression, and then to vanquish them in open conflict with the sword of faith."
MEANS NOTHING IN EXPLAINING THESE VERSES, JUST MUMBO-JUMBO - Keith Hunt
Job 14:22 is rendered by Delitzsch: "Only on his own account his flesh suffereth pain, and on his own account is his soul conscious of grief." Similarly Eichhorn, Noyes, Barnes, and Conant. Hofmann: "The pain of his own flesh, the sadness of his own soul alone engage him. He has therefore no room for rejoicing, nor does the joyous or sorrowful estate of others, though his nearest ones, affect him."
AT TIMES THAT CAN BE TRUE OF ANY OF US; A GENERAL STATEMENT ONLY, AS SOME GO THROUGH LIFE WITH LITTLE PAIN OR NO PAIN IN THE BODY, AND LITTLE OR NO ANGUISH OF THE MIND - Keith Hunt
As to the text from Luke, if it be a parable, we may then say, with Bishop Bull, "It plainly belongs to the very scope and design of this parable to show what becomes of the souls of good and bad men after death." If it is not a parable its tenor cannot be a matter of doubt.
IT IS NOT A PARABLE! BUT FEW UNDERSTAND WHAT JESUS WAS SAYING. I EXPLAIN IN DETAIL THE TRUTH OF THIS DISCORD OF LAZARUS AND THE RICH MAN BY JESUS IN A STUDY ON THIS WEBSITE - Keith Hunt
Prof. Bartlett: 220 "The question whether this is a history or a parable it is not necessary to discuss. In either mode the scripture teaches truth, important and often vital truth. The chief difference is that one mode asserts what has occurred; the other, what does occur.'"
In any aspect Christ could not have lent his sanction to falsehood or imposture. As Alford fitly remarks, "In conforming himself to the ordinary language current on these subjects, it is impossible to suppose that he whose essence is truth could have assumed as existing anything which does not exist. It would destroy the truth of our Lords sayings, if we could conceive him to have used popular language which did not point at truth. And, accordingly, where such language was current, we find him not adopting, but protesting against it."221
Therefore, with Alford, Trench, Wordsworth, and the best commentators, we take the passage relative to the rich man and Lazarus as teaching, at all events, two things: first, that the soul of man is conscious after death; and secondly that, according to its moral character, it goes either into a place of happiness and repose or into one of disquiet and misery. These two thoughts not only lie upon the surface of the narrative; but they also constitute its very life and essence.
OH HOW WRONG ARE SOME OF THE SO-CALLED "SCHOLARS" OF THEOLOGY; ON SOME VITAL ISSUES THEY ARE AS DUMB AS SHEEP; THEY ARE THE BLIND LEADING THE BLIND; AND AS JESUS SAID, BOTH SHALL FALL INTO THE DITCH THE TRUTH OF THIS LAZARUS AND THE RICH MAN IS FULLY EXPLAINED ON THIS WEBSITE - Keith Hunt
The dead, asleep
And Jeroboam slept with his fathers,
even with the kings of Israel.
2 Kings 14:29
For now should I have lain still and been quiet. I should have slept.
Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus
And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth.
Being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient.
1 Peter 3:18-20
I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: and they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
The language which represents death as a "sleep" is figurative, and is founded upon a certain resemblance of external phenomena. But this application
220 Life and Death Eternal, p. 219.
221 See Matt 15:5-6.
of the term does not necessitate the unconsciousness of the "sleeper;" for, as even Whately 222 concedes, "The mind, certainly for the most part, and probably always, continues active during sleep, though in a different manner." A high authority, Dunglison's Medical Dictionary, defines "sleep" as "temporary interruption of our relations with external objects." It is this interruption, with the attendant inaction, the insensibility to external material objects, and the repose, which makes sleep the "image of death." In neither case have we proof that the mind ceases to act, becomes unconscious, or extinct.
The citation from Isaiah represents the dead as awake and conscious. Delitzsch: "All hades is overwhelmed with excitement and wonder, now that the king of Babel, that invincible ruler of the world, who, if not unexpected altogether, was not expected so soon, is actually approaching."
On the next quotation Alford says: "With the great majority of commentators, ancient and modern, I understand these words to say that our Lord, in his disembodied state, did go to the place of detention of departed spirits, and did there announce his work of redemption, preach salvation in fact, to the disembodied spirits of those who refused to obey the voice of God when the judgment of the flood was hanging over them."
Prof. Tayler Lewis: 223 "We are taught that there was a work of Christ in hades. He descended into hades; he makes proclamation 'ekeruxen' in hades to those who are there 'in ward" This interpretation, which was almost universally adopted by the early Christian church, 224 and which is far more tenable than any other, involves, of course, the consciousness of departed souls.
The text from Revelation is very explicit, representing the souls of those who had suffered martyrdom, not as insensible, but as awake in the place of rest.
YA AND THEY ARE ALL [THOUSANDS OF THEM - TENS OF THOUSANDS OF THEM - SAINTS OF ALL AGES] UNDER THE ALTAR IN HEAVEN, ACCORDING TO THE REST OF THIS REVELATION VERSE. AGAIN THE BLINDNESS AND SILLY REASONING OF "SCHOLARS" OF THEOLOGY, IS AMAZINGLY DUMB AT TIMES. THE ABOVE ARGUMENTS ARE ALL ANSWERED ON THIS WEBSITE IN VARIOUS STUDIES - Keith Hunt
Devoid of knowledge.
For in death there is no remembrance of
thee: in the grave who shall give thee
The dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward: for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
And he said, For I will go down into
the grave unto my son mourning.
And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? . . . And the Lord hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the Lord hath rent the kingdom out of thy hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David. . . . Moreover, the Lord will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the Lord also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
1 Samuel 28:15,17,19
SUPPOSED PROOF OF LIVING ON AFTER DEATH, IN A STATE OF THINKING, TALKING, SPEAKING ETC. THE CONTEXT SHOWS SAUL HAD GONE TO A MEDIUM AT ENDOR. PEOPLE WHO WORK WITH THE DARK SPIRIT WORLD CAN INDEED BRING UP SUPPOSED DEAD RELATIVES AND FRIENDS. THE DEMONIC WORLD ARE ABLE TO APPEAR AND TALK AS IF PAST PEOPLE THEY KNEW ARE ALIVE - Keith Hunt
Future State, p. 82.
In Lange on Ecclesiastes, p. 130. Compare Bib. Sacra, Vol. iv. 708; xvi. 309; xix. 1.
" Professor Huidekoper: "In the second and third centuries, every branch and division of Christians, so far as their records enable us to judge, believed that Christ preached to the departed."—Christ's Mission to the Underworld, pp. 51, 52. Dietelmair, in his elaborate "Historia Dogmatis de Descensu Christi ad Inferos," says emphatically that this doctrine "in omni coetu Christiano creditum."—See chapters iv. and vi., of that work.
WHAT THE SO-CALLED "CHURCH" TAUGHT AT ANY TIME, MEANS NOTHING; THE CHURCH IN CATHOLIC AND PROTESTANT EYES MEANS THEIR CHURCH. AND THEIR CHURCH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE VERY TRUE CHURCH OF GOD, AND/OR THE TRUTHS OF THE BIBLE - Keith Hunt
For the grave cannot praise thee, death cannot celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
2 Samuel 12:23
PRETTY STRAIT FORWARD TALK HERE, NO THEOLOGY DEGREE NEEDED -- Keith Hunt
I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment .... Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luke 16:27-28, 30
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
1 Peter 4:6
David's words are highly poetical and figurative, representing the dead as entirely separated from earthly scenes, employments, and society; and especially as giving, so far as visible and material things are concerned, no evidence of sensation or emotion. They speak of death in its earthly aspect.
NOT POETICAL AT ALL…… THEY MEAN WHAT THEY SAY AND SAY WHAT THEY MEAN - Keith Hunt
The quotation from Ecclesiastes, Hengstenberg and Stuart take as the statement of an objection, with a view to refute it. The bald literalism which mortal-soulists apply to this passage is simply suicidal. For, it is asserted of the dead, including the saint as well as the sinner, and without any qualification, "Neither have they any more a reward" Now a literal exegesis of this language absolutely cuts off Abraham, Moses, David, and all the righteous dead from any future reward! We think the above-named theorists would be slow to admit this logical result of their methods of exposition. Yet there is quite as much reason for insisting upon a literal interpretation of the words just cited, as of the clause, "The dead know not any thing."
YES IT IS LITERAL! THE REWARD THEY DO NOT HAVE IS THE REWARDS, PAYMENTS, HONOR…. ALL THAT THE PHYSICAL WORLD CAN BESTOW ON PHYSICAL PERSONS. YOU HAVE ARMY PERSONS BEING AWARDED MEDALS OF HONOR; YOU HAVE PEOPLE AWARDED THE "NOBEL PRIZE" - YOU HAVE CITIZENS BEING REWARDED OR AWARDED MEDALS OF BRAVERY; YOU HAVE "HONORY DEGREES" AWARDED TO PEOPLE FOR LIFE TIME ACHIEVEMENTS. THIS IS THE "NO REWARD" THE DEAD DO NOT HAVE. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE REWARD ALL SAINTS WILL RECEIVE AT THE COMING OF CHRIST - Keith Hunt
The true explanation of this and kindred texts is the following: Zockler: "The author now sees only the conditions of this world"; he speaks of man merely in his relation to the present life. This interpretation agrees admirably with the closing words, "Neither have they any more a portion forever in any thing that is done under the sun." That is, so far as this world is concerned, the dead have no knowledge, nor reward, nor portion. They are as completely severed from earthly affairs, as if they had passed into extinction.
YES BUT THE SCRIPTURES ALLSO SAY THE DEAD CANNOT PRAISE GOD. TO THINK THE SAINTS IN HEAVEN ARE ALIVE IN THOUGHT AND WORD, AND CANNOT PRAISE GOD, IS RIDICULOUS TO THE NINTH DEGREE - Keith Hunt
The quotation from Isaiah, is the language of king Hezekiah of whose "inspiration" there is no proof.
ALWAYS A GOOD WAY OUT TO NOT ADMIT A TRUTH, JUST SAY THEY WERE NOT INSPIRED TO SAY OR WRITE SUCH AND SUCH A THING - Keith Hunt
Of the affirmative passages, the first should be rendered, "I will go down into sheol unto my son mourning."
Prof. Tayler Lewis: 225 "Jacob was going to his son; he was still his son; there is yet a tie between him and his father; he is still spoken of as a personality; he is still regarded as having a being somehow and somewhere." . . . "It was not to his son in his grave, for Joseph had no grave. His body was supposed to be lying somewhere in the desert, or torn in pieces, or carried off, by the wild beasts."
DO WE NOT YET USE SUCH LANGUAGE; "I GO TO MY SON IN DEATH" - A WAY OF SAYING I WILL NOW [OR SHORTLY] JOIN MY SON IN DEATH. WE DO NOT ALWAYS MEAN SUCH PHRASES AS LITERALLY AS JOINING HIM IN TALKING TO HIM, WALKING AROUND WHEREVER WITH HIM, PLAYING BASKET BALL WITH HIM, OR KICKING A SOCCER BALL AROUND WITH HIM. AGAIN THOSE WHO TEACH GOING TO HEAVEN OR HELL-FIRE AT DEATH, WILL GRAB ON TO ANYTHING TO HOLD THEIR THEOLOGY. IF PEOPLE DO GO TO HEAVEN AT DEATH, THEN PEOPLE ALSO GO TO HELL-FIRE AND ARE IN SOME KIND OF TORMENT FOR ETERNITY. SUCH THEOLOGY KEEPS THE BIBLE SKEPTIC AND ATHEIST AS A SKEPTIC AND ATHEIST - Keith Hunt
Herder: 226 "Abraham was gathered to his fathers, 227 though he was not buried with them, and Jacob wished to go down to the realm of shades to his beloved son, although he supposed him to have been torn in pieces by wild beasts." In a word, Jacob expected, as a disembodied spirit, to meet and recognize the spirit of his son in the underworld. The same idea pervades David's words in 2 Samuel 12 concerning his child. As to 1 Samuel 28, apparently the soul of the prophet was permitted to return from sheol, and announce to the terrified Saul his impending destruction. The reproof and the prediction are exactly in keeping with the character of Samuel, and show that he knew whereof he affirmed. He had not, therefore, in death parted with his knowledge.
FIGURES OF SPEACH ARE USED THROUGHOUT THE BIBLE. BULLINGER WROTE A 1,000 PAGE BOOK ON "FIGURES OF SPEECH IN THE BIBLE." AS STATED DEMONS ARE ABLE TO APPEAR THROUGH MEDIUMS, AS PEOPLE YOU ONCE KNEW. AND THEY CAN ALSO SPEAK TRUTH. PAUL SAID SATAN HIMSELF CAN APPEAR AS AN ANGEL OF LIGHT. IF HE CAN LOOK LIKE AN ANGEL OF LIGHT, HE CAN SURELY DECEIVE BY WORDS OF TRUTH ALSO, AMONG WORDS OF DECEPTION - Keith Hunt
Keil: "The modern orthodox commentators are unanimous in the opinion that the deceased prophet did really appear, and announce the destruction of Saul, not, however, in consequence of the magical arts of the witch, but through a miracle wrought by the omnipotence of God." Lord Arthur Hervey in Bible Commentary, and Archbishop Trench in "Shipwrecks of Faith," concur in this view. This is far the most natural and reasonable explanation. Saul's sin of "necromancy" 228 was thus made the occasion and commencement of his punishment.
NOPE! SATAN AND DEMONS CAN COME AS ANGELS OF LIGHT; LOOKING LIKE AND SPEAKING LIKE THEY ARE ANGELS OF LIGHT; HOW EASIER THEN FOR THEM TO COME AS PEOPLE KNOWN IN THE PAST BY OTHERS. PROBABLY A LOT OF UFOs HAVE BEEN DEMONS IN VARIOUS FORMS TO HAVE US BELIEVE THERE IS INTELLIGENT LIFE OUT IN THE UNIVERSE, EVEN MORE ADVANCED THAN US, WHO ARE SNOOPING AROUND OUR PLANET - Keith Hunt
We have elsewhere seen that the narrative of Dives in Luke 16 presupposes the retention of knowledge by departed souls.
LAZARUS AND THE RICH MAN PARABLE IS GROSSLY MISUNDERSTOOD; IT DOES MEAN WHAT IT SAYS; BUT FEW LET IT INTERPRET ITSELF; OR LET THE BIBLE INTERPRET THE PARABLE; THE TRUTH OF IT IS NOT THIS WEBSITE - Keith Hunt
225 In Lange on Genesis, p. 585.
226 Spirit of Hebrew Poetry, i. 179.
227 Alger, commenting on this expression, after citing the cases of Abraham and Isaac, of whom
language similar is used, adds: "These instances might be multiplied. They prove that to be
gathered unto one's fathers,' means to descend into sheol, and join there the hosts of the
departed."—Hist, of Doct. of Fut. Life, p. 152.
228 See Law in Deuteronomy, 18:10-12.
Alford interprets 1 Peter 4:6, of the souls of the antediluvians, shut up in hades, to whom Christ made the proclamation referred to in chapter 3:17-18. This interpretation assumes the possession of knowledge by disembodied spirits.
ALFORD LIKE MANY OTHERS, IS WAY OUT, FROM PLANET PLUTO, ON UNDERSTANDING THESE VERSES CORRECTLY. IF MANKIND DOES HAVE AN IMMORTAL SOUL THAT CONTINUES ON THINKING, REASONING, TALKING, WALKING, SEEING, AFTER DEATH, THEN A HELL-FIRE DOES AWAIT THE SINNER, WHO IS IN ANGUISH AND TORMENT FOR ALL ETERNITY. A TEACHING THAT GIVES THE ATHEISTS ALL THEY NEED TO LAUGH AT THE BIBLE - Keith Hunt
Exercise no mental powers.
The dead praise not the Lord, neither
any that go down into silence.
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Do exercise them.
Dead things are formed from under the
waters, and the inhabitants thereof.
Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee. . . . All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us.
And behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias. Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
The first passage is a voice from out the twilight of the Old Dispensation. Life and immortality not having been fully revealed as yet, the author spoke according to his degree of knowledge and illumination.
NOPE! HE SPOKE AS INSPIRED BY GOD. THIS WAS NOT HIS WRONG IDEAS AT ALL, IT WAS THE FACT OF TRUE THEOLOGY AS THE OLD TESTAMENT WRITERS KNEW VERY WELL; AND THE NEW TESTAMENT WRITERS ALSO. THE FIRST PASSAGE IS TALKING ABOUT THE "DEAD" PERIOD, NOT A CERTAIN PART OF THE DEAD, BUT JUST "THE DEAD" THE SECOND VERSE; YES THE PREVIOUS VERSE DOES TALK ABOUT "PRINCES" AND "SONS OF MEN" - BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE THOUGHTS OF WICKEDNESS, THERE MAYBE NO HELP FROM THEM IN SPIRITUALITY AND SALVATION, BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THEIR THOUGHTS ARE ALL WICKEDNESS - Keith Hunt
In the second text, the "thoughts that perish" are the wicked man's plans and purposes which come to naught at his decease. Hengstenberg: "The thoughts which go to the grave with the dying man are his vain projects." 229
DOES NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THEM BEING THE THOUGHTS OF THE WICKED, OR OF "VAIN PROJECTS."
In the case of the rich fool, 230 his "thoughts" of building larger barns, and of many years of ease and prosperity—all his selfish and worldly schemes—"perished" in that same night.
Delitzsch renders Job 26:5, thus: "The shades are put to pain, deep under the waters and their inhabitants." With this rendering Barnes, Conant, and Noyes substantially agree.
Isaiah 14:9 is rendered by Delitzsch, "The kingdom of the dead below is all in uproar on account of thee, to meet thy coming; it stirreth up the shades for thee." Similarly Henderson, Noyes, and other critics. Now the Hebrew term "rephaim," rendered "dead" in our version of the last two texts, means according
229 In Isaiah 55:7, "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts," the
term "thoughts" is used in a similar bad sense. According to literalistic principles, this pas
sage amounts to an exhortation to stop thinking!
230 See Luke 12:16-20.
to the best Hebraists, not simply the dead, but "that part of man which survives death." 231
THE STIRRING UP THE DEAD AT THEY COMING, IS THE TRUTH OF RESURRECTIONS, IN THE CONTEXT OF THE GLORIOUS COMING AND REIGN FOR 1,000 YEARS OF CHRIST ON EARTH. AS JESUS SAID THE DAY IS COMING THAT ALL IN THE GRAVES SHALL HEAR HIS VOICE, ADN ALL WILL COME FORTH [JOHN 5]. - Keith Hunt
As to the first text from Luke, all that need be said is this; Moses had been dead nearly fifteen centuries. But the disciples now see and recognize him, and hear him speak. It does not, therefore, seem probable that Moses became extinct at death, but that his soul survived and continued to exercise its faculties. Otherwise, it would seem that his identity must have been lost at death; and that for him—the original self-same Moses—there could be no after-life.
THE ANSWER IS FOUND IN MATTHEW'S ACCOUNT OF THE TRANSFIGURATION….. "TELL THE VISION" JESUS SAID, TO NO MAN. IT WAS ALL A VISION - IN THE MIND'S EYE. IT WAS NOT REALITY. MOSES AND ELIJAH WERE NOT THERE IN REAL TIME REALITY. IT WAS A VISION! OH THE SILLINESS OF MEN WHO WILL NOT READ ALL ACCOUNTS; THEN IN NOT DOING THEY ARE DECEIVED INTO A FALSE DOCTRINE - Keith Hunt
Luke 20:38; He is not a God of extinct or non-existent beings, therefore Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are still living. The soul then survives the body, and a resurrection is possible. 232 As Lavater and Stier well say, the passage is a "weighty testimony against the 'sleep of the soul' in the intermediate state." The preceding passages clearly presuppose the conscious activity of departed souls.
ONCE MORE THE MISTAKE IS MADE OF NOT READING THE CONTEXT! GOING BACK TO VERSE 34 OR VERSE 27, WE SEE THE CONTEXT. IT IS TO DO WITH THE WORLD TO COME, AND THE RESURRECTION - SEE VERSE 33. JESUS GOES ON TO TALK ABOUT "THAT WORLD" AND "THE RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD" [VERSE 35]. GOD IS NOT THE GOD OF THE DEAD - ONLY ABLE TO BE THEIR GOD UP TO PHYSICAL DEATH, BUT HE IS A GOD OF THE LIVING, FOR THOSE WHO DIED WILL LIVE AGAIN; THEY WILL BE GOD'S CHILDREN, FOR THEY WILL BE THE CHILDREN OF THE RESURRECTION [VERSE 36]. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH "LIVING ON" AFTER DEATH; IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE CONTEXT OF MARRIAGE AND THE RESURRECTION. GOD IS A GOD OF THE LIVING FOR ALL LIVE IN HIM. BACK TO JOHN 5 - ALL EVENTUALLY IN THE GRAVES WILL HEAR THE VOICE OF CHRIST AND WILL LIVE AGAIN - Keith Hunt
In darkness and silence.
There the prisoners rest together; they
hear not the voice of the oppressor.
Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and the shadow of death.
Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction? Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?
In glory and blessedness.
Thou shalt guide me with thy counsel,
and afterward receive me to glory.
— Psalm 73:24
The path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto
the perfect day.
Whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:6
For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Of Job's authority as a religious teacher we have previously spoken.
BACK TO JOB BEING UN-INSPIRED, JUST A MAN WITH HIS OWN THOUGHTS, WHICH TO MANY MEAN UNINSPIRED AND NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY - A EASY COP-OUT - Keith Hunt
As to the language cited from the eighty-eighth Psalm, it is Oriental poetry, therefore hyperbolical and intensely figurative. To interpret it literally, is to do it the utmost possible violence. For example, in the fifth verse it is said of the "slain" that God remembers them no more; in the sixth verse, the Psalmist represents, himself as "in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps." Upon these latter words
131 Professor Conant, in Smith's Bib. Diet., Article "Dead," says the term means "disembodied spirits separated from the body at death, and continuing to live in a separate existence." Fuerst: "A shadow, shadowy being." He adds that, in the two passages just referred to, these shades are represented as stirred up out of their rest, and as feeling the administrative agency of God. Gesenius: "The shades, manes, dwelling in hades, whom the Hebrews supposed to be destitute of blood and animal life, but yet not wholly without some faculties of mind." See, also, Boettcher, "De Inferis," pp. 94-100.
232 Consult Alford's significant, but concise, comment on this text.
Hengstenberg says, "the grave of deep places, in verse 6, is sheol deep in the earth, and 'the dark places' are the dark places of sheol." But was the Psalmist already in sheol, the underworld? This would be the absurd conclusion to which a rigid literalism would lead.
OF COURSE HE WAS NOT YET IN SHEOL, BUT HE KNEW ABOUT WHAT SHEOL WAS AND CONTAINED…… WHEN HE GOT THERE….. WHEN HE GOT TO THE GRAVE….. THERE IS FOR THAT PERSON NONE OF GOD'S LOVING-KINDNESS, FAITHFULNESS, WONDERS, OR RIGHTEOUSNESS. THERE IS DESTRUCTION OF THE PHYSICAL PERSON, THERE IS DARKNESS, THERE IS FORGETFULNESS ….. YOU DO NOT CONTINUE TO THINK, TALK, SPEAK, REMEMBER, WALK AROUND, PLUCK ON A HARP, OR STARE AT THE FACE OF JESUS IN GLIRIOUS BRIGHTNESS - Keith Hunt
On the theory that the dead are unconscious, in darkness and silence, the "path of the just" instead of growing brighter "unto the perfect day," is disrupted at death by a fearful chasm of black nonexistence. In place of a continuous shining track of light, we see a yawning abyss of unfathomable gloom.
NO YOU DO NOT SEE "GLOOM" AS RECOGNIZING IT. YOU SEE NOTHING. AS WHEN YOU GO TO SLEEP AT NIGHT; YOU SEE, HEAR, SMELL, TALK, THINK, NOTHING. SURE SOMETIMES WE HAVE DREAMS, BUT OFTEN WE DO NOT. LAST NIGHTS SLEEP FOR ME WAS NO DREAMING, NO LIGHT, NO SPEAKING, NO THINKING, NO PRAISING GOD, NO WALKING ABOUT, NO HEARING. I FELT NO UNFATHOMABLE GLOOM - IT PEACE AND RESTFULNESS, AND ONLY AS IF A SECOND TO WHEN I WAS AWAKE - Keith Hunt
Nor would Paul lying unconscious in the grave be "present with the Lord" more truly than when he was living in the love, service, and fellowship of Christ. Nor does it appear that it would be "gain" for Paul to "die"—to relinquish his loving, tireless, and blessed labor for the Master, and go into unconscious hibernation or blank nonentity, in the cold sepulchre. A glowing heart like Paul's would hardly count a dormant state, like that of "The Seven Sleepers," to be "gain."
In this connection, we give the views of the Hebrews, particularly those of later and more enlightened times.
THE VERSES FROM PAUL, THE PSALMS AND PROVERBS, SHOW WHAT IS TO BE AFTER DEATH; WHAT IS TO BE FOR THE SAINTS OF GOD. AND SO DEATH IS GAIN; WE ARE FREE FROM THE CARES AND CONCERNS OF THIS LIFE; FREE FROM THE TROUBLES, TRIALS OF LIFE; FREE FROM ANY PHYSICAL PAINS OF LIFE; FREE FROM ANY METAL ANGUISHES OF LIFE. AND GLORY AND LIGHT DOES AWAIT US. THE QUESTION IS WHEN DOES THE SAINT GET ALL THIS, AND GET TO BE WITH CHRIST? THE WHOLE AND EVERY VERSE ON THIS TOPIC MUST BE SORT FOR AND FOUND BEFORE WE HAVE THE ANSWER. THE ANSWER IS PROVED ON MANY STUDIES ON THIS WEBSITE. THERE IS NO RECOGNITION OF TIME WHEN SLEEPING. THE SAINT RECEIVES GLORY, LIGHT, PERFECTNESS, AND ARE WITH CHRIST, WHEN HE CALLS. WE SHALL COME FORTH TO LIFE AND GLORY AT THE RESURRECTION, OR BE INSTANTLY CHANGED FROM MORTAL TO IMMORTALITY, AT THE LAST TRUMP, AT THE COMING OF JESUS. MANY STUDIES ON THIS WEBSITE PROVE THIS TO BE THE TRUE ANSWER TO DEATH AND THE RESURRECTION. THE READER IS ENCOURAGED TO STUDY THOSE STUDIES - Keith Hunt
Lightfoot: 233 "It was universally believed amongst the Jews, that pure and holy souls when they left this body went into happiness, to Abraham."
WHAT THE JEWS BELIEVE IS NOTHING. IT IS WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT IS CORRECT. AND CONCERNING JEWS…… THERE IS A STANDING JOKE EVEN AMONG JEWS THEMSELVES; "ASK THREE A JEWS A QUESTION AND YOU'LL GET THREE DIFFERENT ANSWERS." - Keith Hunt
Dr. Jahn: 234 In sheol "the departed spirits rejoice in that rest so much desired by the Orientals; and there the living hope to see once more their beloved ancestors and children."
WHAT MAN HAS TO SAY ALSO MEANS NOTHING; IT IS WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT IS CORRECT AND THAT IS THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER - Keith Hunt
Not with Christ.
Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come, so now I say to you.
For David is not ascended into the heavens.
The righteous with him.
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:8
For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better.
233 Hor. Hebraicae, iii. 171 (Gandell's edition).
234 Bib. Archaeol., Sec. 314.
The first text alludes to the time subsequent to Christ's ascension. Then he was no longer visibly and personally with them; whither he had gone they could not then go. Their earthly mission must first be accomplished.
David had not been raised from the dead, and his body and soul reunited. He had not yet ascended to heaven, and entered upon his full reward, but was in the intermediate state, tranquilly awaiting the resurrection.
SOUNDS LIKE THIS "INTERMEDIATE STATE" IS A ROMAN CATHOLIC TEACHING, A KINDA PURGATORY BUT A PROTESTANT ONE, IN WHATEVER FORM THEY MEAN BY IT. THE VERSE DOES NOT SAY DAVID'S BODY AND SOUL WAS NOT YET RE-UNITED, OR GOT HIS FULL REWARD - ALL THAT IS READ INTO IT, MADE UP, BY HUMAN MINDS. THE VERSE SAYS "DAVID" THE MAN, THE WHOLE MAN, WAS NOT ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN. SURE HIS "SPIRIT" WAS BACK WITH GOD WHO GAVE IT [ECC. 12:9]; BUT AS BEFORE STATED, THE SPIRIT IN MAN DOES NOT CONTINUE TO WALK, TALK, SEE, HEAR, SPEAK, PRAISE GOD, AFTER DEATH. IT IS THE CD OF THE CHARACTER OF THE CHRISTIAN PERSON, LESS ALL SINS [WASHED AWAY BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST AND HIS PRIESTLY WORK NOW IN HEAVEN FOR US]. DAVID THE FULL PERSON IS WAITING THE RESURRECTION WHEN IMMORTAL LIFE WILL BE HIS. AS JESUS SAID, NO MAN HAS ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN BUT HE THAT CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN [HIMSELF] - Keith Hunt
The opposed texts show that the righteous are at death, in a certain sense with Christ, present with the Lord, in "disembodied and imperfect bliss" which is a foretaste of complete felicity to be awarded them at the last day.
ALL WRONG! ALL VERSES ANSWERED IN FULL IN OTHER STUDIES ON THIS WEBSITE - Keith Hunt
Together in one place.
The Lord will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me.
1 Samuel 28:19
All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
In different places.
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.. . . And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed.
Luke 16:23, 26
Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
The first two passages teach that the good and bad, at their departure from this life, go alike into the intermediate state, but do not assert that their condition there is the same.
"INTERMEDIATE STATE" ??? A MAN MADE IDEA. THE BIBLE SPEAKS OF NO SUCH PLACE. THE BIBLE SPEAKS OF DEATH AND THE RESURRECTION - JUST THAT SIMPLE. DEATH HAS A TRUTH TO IT - WHAT IT IS; RESURRECTION AS A TRUTH TO IT - WHAT IT IS. ALL VERSES PRESENTED ARE EXPLAINED IN OTHER STUDIES AS TO THE WHOLE TRUTH OF THIS SUBJECT OF DEATH AND RESURRECTION - Keith Hunt
In Luke 16 we see the rich man and Lazarus both in the intermediate state, but one in misery, the other in happiness. In a certain sense, both went "to one place"; in another sense, they went to very different places.
NOPE! VERY WRONG IDEAS ON THIS PARABLE FROM CATHOLICS AND PROTESTANTS. THE PARABLE MEANS WHAT IT SAYS AND SAYS WHAT IT MEANS; BUT MOST JUST CANNOT UNDERSTAND IT CORRECTLY - I GIVE YOU THE TRUTH IN A STUDY OF IT ON THIS WEBSITE - Keith Hunt
Acts 1:25, teaches that Judas went to "his own place," to the punishment ippropriate to his conduct. Such is the view of Olshausen, DeWette, Livermore, Barnes, Hackett, Meyer, Alford, and other commentators.
In the dust and the grave.
And many of them that sleep in the
dust of the earth shall awake.
All that are in the graves shall hear his voice.
Saints, with God.
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:8
Them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1 Thessalonians 4:14
The quotation from Daniel refers to man in his physical organism and relations. As to his material, bodily form, in which he is cognizable by our senses, he "sleeps in the dust," at death.
SLEEP IN THE DUST IS AS JESUS SAID ABOUT LAZARUS…. HE SLEEPS…. WHICH HIS DISCIPLES FINALLY REALIZED HE MEANT DEATH. HUMAN DEATH IS SLEEP - AGAIN JUST THAT SIMPLE - A SLEEP LIKE I HAD LAST NIGHT, NO THOUGHTS, NO DREAMS, NO TALKING, NO HEARING, NO WALKING, NO THINKING, NO SEEING - Keith Hunt
The literalistic exposition of the text from John leads to the conclusion that the unvaried dead are not to be raised. If the phraseology "all that are in the graves" is to be rigidly pressed, then it is a legitimate inference that those who sleep beneath the waves of ocean, those who were devoured by wild beasts, those who were burned at the stake, as not being "in the graves," will not "hear his voice and come forth."
Doubtless the expression is equivalent simply to "all the dead."
YES IN THIS I AGREE….. SIMPLY "ALL IN THE GRACES" MEANS "ALL THE DEAD" - Keith Hunt
The last two texts imply that the souls of departed saints are with God, not necessarily in the highest rewards of heaven, but "in the bosom of Abraham," in paradise, joyfully awaiting those rewards.
VERY BAD THEOLOGY UNDERSTANDING OF THE LAST VERSES WHEN ALL VERSES ON THE SUBJECT ARE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT. THE LAST VERSES GIVEN I COVER IN VARIOUS STUDIES CONCERNING DEATH - Keith Hunt
Dead to be raised.
Thy dead men shall live, together with
my dead body shall they arise.
Now that the dead are raised, even Moses showed at the bush.
For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead... . The trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible.
1 Corinthians 15:21, 52
Not to be raised.
He that goeth down to the grave shall
come up no more.
Man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise.
They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beersheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again.
The quotations from Job express the opinion, or perhaps, the temporary doubts, of a good, but uninspired, man. They cannot counterbalance the express statements of inspiration.
HERE WE ARE AGAIN BACK TO JOB BE UN-INSPIRED, A COPE-OUT ARGUMENT. THE ONE VERSE JOB IS SPEAKING IN THE GENERAL STATEMENT THAT MAN GOING TO THE GRAVE CANNOT RAISE HIMSELF; AS FAR AS HUMAN ABILITY GOES MAN HAS NO POWER OVER DEATH, ONCE HE HAS ENTERED DEATH. THE SECOND THOUGHT OF JOB IS AS UNDER GOD'S HANDS; MAN WILL BE RAISED OUT OF THEIR SLEEP, WILL RISE AGAIN….. WHEN THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE - THE END OF THIS AGE WHEN THE HEAVENS WILL SHAKE AND JESUS WILL RETURN AT THE LAST TRUMPT SOUND. JOB KNEW WHAT PAUL KNEW. ALL WERE INSPIRED - Keith Hunt
Isaiah asserts that certain foreign powers, the Assyrians, Babylonians, etc., who had oppressed the Israelites, were deceased and should not "rise"; that is, to resume their former arbitrary sway. Not the resurrection of individuals, but the restoration of fallen despotisms, is denied.
The text from Amos has no reference to the future world. It predicts simply the irretrievable overthrow of certain idolaters, in this world.
YES I AGREE ! Keith Hunt
The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth.
A partial one.
And many of them that sleep in the
dust of the earth shall awake.
According to Fuerst, the word translated "many" means likewise crowds or
Calvin: "The word many seems here clearly put for all." Stuart regards it as "equivalent to our word multitudes." Barnes: "There would be a vast or general resurrection from the dead; so much so that the mind would be interested mainly in the contemplation of the great hosts who would thus come forth."
THE CONTEXT IS TO DO WITH THE VERY END TIMES; THE GREATEST TRIBULATION THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN. AND THE RESURRECTION OF THAT TIME, PLUS THE RESURRECTION OF THE SECOND RESURRECTION OF REVELATION 20. AS DANIEL TALKS ABOUT THE RESURRECTION OF THE COMING OF THE LORD, THE END OF THIS AGE, AT THE GREATEST TIME OF TROUBLE THE WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN, HE ALSO ADDS IN THE RESURRECTION TO SHAME AND EVERLASTING CONTEMPT - THE RESURRECTION TO THE SECOND DEATH IN THE LAKE OF FIRE [REV. 20] - Keith Hunt
Jesus raised first.
That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead.
Now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1 Corinthians 15:20
Others raised previously.
And the Lord heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.
1 Kings 17:22
And they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.
2 Kings 13:21
And he that was dead sat up, and began to speak. And he delivered him to his mother.
Romans 6:9 furnishes the solution of the difficulty. Jesus was the first who rose from the dead to die no more. All others who were raised, passed a second time through the gates of death. Over him, death "hath no more dominion." Hence, he is the "first-begotten of the dead," the first who was raised to immortal life.
YES I AGREE - Keith Hunt
Ascribed to God.
Shall not the Judge of all the earth do
The heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself.
For the Father judgeth no man, but
hath committed all judgment unto the
We shall all stand before the judgment-seat of Christ.
God will judge the world by Jesus Christ.235
235 Acts 17:31; Romans 2:16.
Disclaimed by Him.
Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Attributed to Christ.
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: and before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats.
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world; that they which see not might see; and that they which see, might be made blind.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ.
2 Corinthians 5:10
These two classes of texts refer, the one to the second, the other to the first advent of our Lord. At his first coming, his object was to present himself, not as the Judge, but as the Savior, of men; not to condemn but to save them. When he comes the second time, it will be "in flaming fire, taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel." 236
Yet the "judging of the world," involving the condemnation of the guilty, was not the ultimate object of Christ's mission, but rather a subordinate and incidental result of that mission.
Administered by God.
God the Judge of all.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God: and the books were opened.
By men also.
Ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1 Corinthians 2:15
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels?
1 Corinthians 6:2-3
236 2 Thessalonians 1:8.
Barnes takes Matthew 19:28, as implying not so much an actual exercise of the power of passing judgment, as the honor attached to the office. The apostles should, at the last day, be relatively honored as judges are.
In 1 Corinthians 2:15, the Greek word employed is the same which in the preceding verse is translated "discerned." It has no reference to the final judgment, but denotes spiritual insight and discrimination in the present life.
As to the last citation, it may be taken simply as asserting that the saints, by their example, would "judge," i.e. condemn, sinful men and angels. This interpretation is corroborated by Matthew 12:41-42, which asserts that the Ninevites and the queen of Sheba should rise up in the judgment with that generation and "condemn" it; that is, by their example.
Chrysostom: "The saints shall judge the world by their exemplary judgment, because by their example the perfidiousness of the world shall be condemned."
Whately:237 "Not that he meant, or was ever understood to mean, that these persons would themselves take a share in the final judgment; but that their conduct would be a condemnation of the unbelieving generation, who rejected one greater than Jonas, and than Solomon." In another paragraph, the same writer strongly supports this explanation, and continues: "Any one who takes the right course, by so doing, condemns—in the New Testament language, 'judges'—those who, with equal opportunities, choose the wrong. This was the case with the Corinthian Christians (or saints); who, by embracing the gospel, judged (in this sense) their unbelieving neighbors, to whom it had been proposed, and who rejected it."
This interpretation relieves the saints of actual participation in the work of judging mankind.
Even if, with Alford and many critics, we feel constrained by the tenor of the passage, to admit this actual participation, still, since the power which the saints exercise is all derived from God, the work of judgment may properly be attributed wholly to him.
237 Future State, pp. 133-138.
Future Punishment—Its Nature
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire.
And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites.
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night.
End of consciousness.
For, lo, thine enemies O Lord, for, lo,
thine enemies shall perish.
And he shall bring upon them their own iniquity, and shall cut them off in their own wickedness.
All the wicked will he destroy.
They that forsake the Lord shall be consumed.
The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction.
2 Thessalonians 1:9
The day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2 Peter 3:7
According to the received view, the texts, at the right, while implying ruin, irremediable overthrow, do not mean annihilation or extinction. Mortal-soulists, or "annihilationists" as they are commonly designated, interpret these texts, on the contrary, with a bald and rigid literalism, inferring from them the actual annihilation of the wicked. Mr. Hudson, 238 the ablest author of this class, observes: "The literal sense of the terms in question is manifestly the true one in most instances." Blain asserts that "death" is "extinction of being, soul and body."
Dr. Ives 239 says that death is "the cessation of existence," the first death being a temporary, the second a final cessation. These definitions are founded upon a literalistic, though not self-consistent, exegesis of scripture.
To show the irrelevancy and unsoundness of the arguments employed by writers of this class, the following examples of scripture usage are introduced. The reader will see, at a glance, to what absurdities literalistic interpretation, if consistently carried out, would lead its advocates.
The wicked perish.
So let all thine enemies perish, O
But the wicked shall perish.
He that speaketh lies shall perish
The righteous perish.
There is a just man that perisheth in his
The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart.
The good man is perished out of the earth.
238 Debt and Grace, p. 182.
239 Bible Doctrine of the Soul, p. 42.
In all these cases, the same Hebrew term, "abadh," is used.
Now, if this term, in the first series of texts, necessarily implies that the wicked are to be annihilated, it is clear that, in the second, it implies, for the same reasons and with the same force, the annihilation of the righteous. Such is the logical conclusion to which literalism conducts us.
NO NOT AT ALL. THE WRITER ASSUMES THAT THE HEBREW [COULD BE GREEK] MEANS THE SAME IN ALL CONTEXTS. THE INSPIRED WRITERS THOUGHT NO SUCH IDEA. SO THE FIRST VERSES SHOW UN-REPENTED SINNERS [WHATEVER THE SIN - LIES OR ETC.] SHALL PERISH. THE SEARCHER FOR TRUTH MUST ASCERTAIN FROM ALL THE BILE WHAT "PERISH" FOR SINNERS MEANS. THE SEARCHER FOR TRUTH HAS TO FIND IF THE BIBLE TEACHES A PERSON HAS SOMETHING OR A PERSON WITHIN A HUMAN PERSON THAT IS "IMMORTAL" AND GOES ON LIVING, THINKING, SEEING, SPEAKING, TALKING, WALKING, ETC. AFTER PHYSICAL DEATH. IF NOT THEN "PERISH" MEANS FOR SINNERS COMPLETE REMOVAL OF LIFE IN THE SECOND DEATH. IF THEY HAVE AN IMMORTAL PERSON INSIDE OF A MORTAL PERSON, THEN THE HELL-FIRE TORMENT IS THE SINNERS FATE, AS TAUGHT BY POPULAR CHRISTIANITY.
FOR THE RIGHTEOUS PERISHING. LAST VERSES GIVEN. THE CONTEXT FOR "PERISH" DOES NOT MEAN THE END RESULT, AS IT DID FOR SINNERS. IT CANNOT MEAN END RESULT, FOR THE RIGHTEOUS CHRISTIAN DOES NOT HAVE AN END OF LIFE IN THE FINAL RESULT, FOR THEY LIVE FOREVER. SO IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE RIGHTEOUS SAINT OF GOD TO PERISH IN ETERNAL DEATH WITH NO LIFE WHATSOEVER. HENCE THE LOGICAL COMMON SENSE UNDERSTANDING IS: THE RIGHTEOUS SAINT OF GOD DIES OR PHYSICALLY PERISHES WHILE LIVING RIGHTEOUSLY, SOMETIMES YOUNG; THEY DIE OR PHYSICALLY PERISH WHILE THOSE AROUND THEM COULD CARE LESS; THEY DIE OR PHYSICALLY PERISH FROM THE EARTH. THE RIGHTEOUS SAINT OF GOD IS NOT AMMUNE TO PHYSICALLY PERISHING FROM OFF THE EARTH - Keith Hunt
Likewise the fool and the brutish person perish.
Psalm 49:10 (ll)240
For, lo, they that are far from thee shall perish.
A false witness shall perish.
Annihilated objects, existing.
And with all lost things of thy brother's, which he hath lost, and thou hast found, shalt thou do likewise.
And the asses of Kish Saul's father were lost. . . . And as for thine asses that were lost three days ago, set not thy mind on them: for they are found.
1 Samuel 9:3, 20
Here the same word "abadh" rendered "perish" in the first series, is translated "lost" in the second series. If now in the one case it implies the extinction of sinners, in the other it implies the extinction of the "lost things" and of Kish's asses. It would seem that the process of annihilation, in the latter cases, could hardly have been fatal to the existence of the objects mentioned, for they are afterwards "found."
ONCE MORE THE WRITER MAKES THE MISTAKE OF THINKING ALL HEBREW WORDS MUST MEAN THE SAME THING IN EVER CONTEXT. JUST NOT TRUE AT ALL. WE HAVE THE ENGLISH WORD "PRESENT" - IN ONE CONTEXT I GIVE YOU A PRESENT; IN ANOTHER CONTEXT I AM PRESENT WITH YOU FOR DINNER AT A RESTAURANT. A SINNER CAN "PERISH" IN THIS LIFE LIKE A RIGHTEOUS PERSON CAN - THEY DIE. BUT ALSO A SINNER CAN PERISH IN THE SECOND DEATH, AND HAVE NO LIFE AT ALL. CERTAIN OBJECTS, THINGS, ANIMALS, CAN "PERISH" - "BE LOST" IN ANOTHER CONTEXT OF "BEING LOST." WHICH CONTEXT SHOWS THE HEBREW WORD USED, IS BEING USED TO MEAN "LOST" NOT DEAD, OR PERISHING FOR ALL ETERNITY WITH NO LIFE. SO WORDS [the same word] CAN BE USED DIFFERENTLY WITHIN DIFFERENT CONTEXTS - Keith Hunt
Wicked cut off
For evildoers shall be cut off.... When
the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see
Psalm 37:9, 34
The Messiah cut off.
And after threescore and two weeks
shall Messiah be cut off, but not for
In these three cases, "karath," is rendered "cut off." If the first texts teach the annihilation of the wicked, the last implies equally strongly that the Messiah was annihilated!
AGAIN, CONTEXT PLEASE, CONTEXT. IT ALL JUST PROVES WORDS HAVE A CONTEXT. THE SAME WORD DOES NOT MEAN THE SAME THING IN ALL CONTEXTS, JUST AS OUR ENGLISH WORD "PRESENT" DOES NOT. EVIL DOERS CAN BE CUT OFF - DIE - IN THIS LIFETIME AS RIGHTEOUS PEOPLE CAN BE, IN PHYSICAL DEATH. WHAT HAPPENS TO THE UN-REPENTED SINNER/EVIL-DOER IN THE END AS BEING "CUT-OFF" IS TO FIND OUT FROM THE REST OF THE BIBLE, A DIFFERENT CONTEXT AND A DIFFERENT SEARCH OF ANOTHER TRUTH. THE MESSIAH WAS "CUT-OFF" - DIED IN PHYSICAL DEATH; THAT IS THE CONTEXT FOR THE WORD IN THIS SITUATION, AS WE KNOW IT CANNOT POSSIBLY BE REFERRING TO END OF LIFE PERIOD, WITH NO LIFE TO FOLLOW, AS WE KNOW JESUS IS ALIVE IN HEAVEN AT THE FATHER'S RIGHT HAND - Keith Hunt
Thou shaft destroy them that speak
All the wicked will he destroy.
And he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Persons destroyed, yet alive.
He hath destroyed me on every side.
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help.
If the Hebrew words, and their English equivalent "destroy," used in these cases, imply extinction or termination of conscious existence, we have, in the last citation, a people who, although they had been annihilated, were yet in a hopeful condition.
An odd kind of "annihilation" that must be, which is still susceptible of relief! The sense clearly is, "Thou hast brought great calamities upon thyself, but in me is thine help."
OH THE SILLY AND ILLOGICAL THINKING OF MEN. THIS ALL PROVES THAT "DESTROY" DOES NOT MEAN THE SAME IN EVERY CONTEXT. THE "DESTROY" OF THE WICKED, THE SINNER, HAS TO FIRST BE THE CONTEXT…. THIS LIFE, OR THE END RESULT OF THE SINNER; PROVED BY THE REST OF THE BIBLE ON THE SUBJECT. THEN IN THE LAST VERSES IT IS OBVIOUS "DESTROY" DOES NOT MEAN THE SAME IN THOSE CONTEXT VERSES, BUT HAS TO DO WITH TROUBLES ON EVERY SIDE FOR PEOPLE OR PEOPLES, IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS. CONTEXT, CONTEXT, FOR THE USE OF WORDS - Keith Hunt
But the transgressors shall be destroyed
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy.
1 Corinthians 3:17
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction.
2 Thessalonians 1:9
Inanimate objects destroyed.
And Pharaoh's servants said unto him,
. . . Knowest thou not yet that Egypt is
Am I now come up without the Lord against this place to destroy it? The Lord said to me, Go up against this land, and destroy it.
2 Kings 18:25
Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed; . . . take balm for her pain, if so be she may be healed.
And shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
It need not be said that in these cases, the literalistic interpretation of the terms "destroy" and "destruction" would land us in the grossest exegetical absurdities.241
AGAIN IT IS CONTEXT!! OF COURSE THE LATTER VERSES DID NOT MEAN ANYTHING TO DO WITH ANY FINAL RESULT IN THE CONTEXT OF ETERNITY. BUT SINNERS BEING DESTROYED COULD HAVE TO DO WITH END RESULT. SO THE SEARCHER FOR TRUTH HAS TO SEARCH THE BIBLE TO FIND WHAT THE END RESULT WILL BE FOR SINNERS THAT WILL FACE DESTRUCTION. PROVING ONCE MORE WORDS HAVE A CONTEXT AND A MEANING WITHIN THAT CONTEXT - Keith Hunt
Evil doers consumed.
Let the sinners be consumed out of the
Things without life consumed.
There shall be an overflowing shower in mine anger, and great hailstones in my fury to consume it. So will I break down the wall.
CONTEXT AGAIN MUST BE USED TO SEE HOW A WORD IS BEING USED WITHIN THAT CONTEXT OF WHERE IT IS USED, EITHER WITH PRESENT PHYSICAL WORLD OR ETERNAL USE.
241 An example of similar kind is furnished by the literalistic exposition of Malachi 4:1-3. The prophet declares that the wicked shall be burned, and adds that they shall "be ashes" (not "as ashes"), under the feet of the righteous. The folly of taking such language literally need not be pointed out.
JUST MINUTE NOW, WHAT DO YOU DEFINE AS "ASHES"? I THINK OF ASHES AS ANYTHING BURNED UP. MOST THINGS ARE "WATER" OUR BODY IS THEY SAY 70 PERCENT WATER, AND SO ON. A TREE IS EX PERCENT WATER, AS IS A DOG, OR HORSE. WHEN ANY OF THEM ARE FULLY BURNT UP, BURNT TO A CRISP AS WE SAY, I DOUBT YOU CAN TELL THE ASHES LEFT, AS BEING A TREE, OR DOG, OR HORSE, OR HUMAN. SO THE WICKED WILL ONE DAY BE "ASHES" FULLY BURNT TO A CRISP - Keith Hunt
They that forsake the Lord shall be consumed.
And the scorner is consumed.
I have heard all thy blasphemies which thou hast spoken against the mountains of Israel, saying, They are laid desolate, they are given us to consume.
Of course, a wall "consumed" by "hailstones," and mountains "consumed" by men, would hardly be understood as having ceased to exist.
AGAIN JUST PROVING HOW THE CONTEXT OF A WORD IS USED, LIKE OUR ENGLISH WORD "PRESENT" - Keith Hunt
Wicked "was not."
Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not:
yea, I sought him, but he could not be
Enoch "was not. "
And Enoch walked with God: and he
was not; for God took him.
The Hebrew for "was not," is exactly the same in these two cases. Now if the first passage teaches the extinction of the wicked, the second teaches that Enoch became extinct. Yet so far from this, we know that he was "translated that he should not see death."242
ONCE MORE CONTEXT CONTEXT! WORDS MEAN DIFFERENT MEANINGS WITHIN A CONTEXT - Keith Hunt
And fire came down from God out of
heaven, and devoured them.
If a man bring you into bondage, if a
man devour you.
2 Corinthians 11:20
But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
In these three instances, kindred words of equal intensity are employed. The inference is not difficult.
SURE INTENSITY….. BUT WHAT KIND OF INTENSITY? OBVIOUSLY THE INTENSITY OF REV. 20:9 WAS DIFFERENT [physically burnt up] THAN THE DEVOUR OF INTENSITY OF THE OTHER TWO VERSES. IT IS AGAIN CONTEXT PLEASE - Keith Hunt
God's adversaries devoured.
Judgment and fiery indignation, which
shall devour the adversaries.
Widows' houses devoured.
Beware of the scribes,. . . which devour
Mark 12:38, 40
The reader will observe that the Greek verb of the first text occurs in the second in a strengthened form. 243 So that, if the first text teaches the annihilation of the wicked, the second teaches that "widows' houses" were doubly annihilated by the scribes.
THE CONTEXT FOR THE FIRST IS STRONG ENOUGH TO KILL PEOPLE, BURN THEM UP. THE CONTEXT FOR THE SECOND IS A DOUBLE DEVOUR OF THE TERRIBLE WAY THE SCRIBES TREATED SOME PEOPLE. IT IS NOT A DEVOUR OF FIRE TO THE PHYSICAL WHICH BURNS AND THEN ITS OVER, IN A MATTER OF A FEW MINUTES; BUT THE HARSHER, STRONGER "DEVOUR" THE SCRIBES USED, WOULD MENTALLY, EMOTIONALLY, TO A DEGREE ALSO PHYSICAL [EMOTIONS CAN CAUSE PHYSICAL PAIN], GO ON FOR A MUCH LONGER TIME, EVEN YEARS UPON THE PEOPLE THEY EFFECTED; HENCE WITHIN A CONTEXT A STRONGER DEVOUR, AS THE WORD USED WITHIN A CERTAIN CONTEXT - Keith Hunt
But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be
devoured with the sword.
Therefore all they that devour thee shall be devoured.
A forest devoured persons.
For the battle was there scattered over the face of all the country: and the wood devoured more people that day than the sword devoured.
2 Samuel 18:8
In all these passages, the same Hebrew verb "akal" is used. In the latter instance, literalism, it need not be remarked, would make nonsense of the narrative. Yet there is as much reason for a literal explication of the latter text as of the two former texts.
ALL THREE VERSES ARE A "DEVOUR" TO PHYSICAL DEATH, THAT SHOULD BE OBVIOUS TO ALL COMMON SENSE READERS. THE CONTEXT USED FOR THE WORD DEVOUR IN THOSE CONTEXTS SHOULD IT IS THE PHYSICAL BEING TALKED ABOUT - Keith Hunt
Wicked torn and broken.
Thy right hand, O Lord, hath dashed
in pieces the enemy.
The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces.
1 Samuel 2:10
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces.
He teareth me in his wrath; ... he hath broken me asunder: he hath also taken me by my neck, and shaken me to pieces; ... he cleaveth my reins asunder, and doth not spare; he poureth out my gall upon the ground. He breaketh me with breach upon breach.
They break in pieces thy people, O Lord.
Here language equally strong and intense is applied to the calamities befalling the righteous and the wicked. If in the former case extinction of existence is intended, why not in the latter case?
WELL THE FORMER VERSES COULD BE REFERRING TO THIS LIFE, AND HOW GOD CAN DEAL WITH PEOPLE. PS. 2:9 IS A PROPHECY WHEN THE MESSIAH COMES AGAIN TO RULE ALL NATIONS, SEE THE CONTEXT. IF ANY REFER TO THE FINAL RESULT OF THE WICKED, THEY CERTAINLY ARE GOING TO BE BROKEN IN THE LAKE OF FIRE AND THE SECOND DEATH. THE LATTER VERSES ARE ALSO CLEARLY IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS PHYSICAL LIFE AND WHAT CAN HAPPEN EVEN TO GOD'S PEOPLE AT TIMES - Keith Hunt
Wicked broken in pieces.
Associate yourselves, O ye people, and
ye shall be broken in pieces.
Objects broken, yet still existing.
The sacrifices of God are a broken
spirit: a broken and a contrite heart.
And shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
To show the complete absurdity of insisting upon the literal interpretation of these and similar expressions, it need only be mentioned that Psalm 51:17, "A broken and a contrite heart," is, when rendered literally, "a heart broken in pieces and shivered."244
244 Professor Bartlett, "Life and Death Eternal," p.98
OBVIOUSLY "BROKEN" IN IS.8:9 IS IN THIS PHYSICAL LIFE, A CONTEXT. BROKEN AS USED IN PS. 51:17 AND DAN. 7:23 IS IN ANOTHER CONTEXT ENTIRELY. WORDS HAVING DIFFERENT MEANS IN ACTUAL APPLICATIONS. THE FIRST IS LITERAL DEATH AND INJURY ON ISRAEL'S ENEMIES. THE LATTER ONE IS ALSO PHYSICAL DESTRUCTION OF SORTS UPON EARTH. THE PS. 51:7 IS ANOTHER USE OF THE SAME WORDS, WHICH AGAIN OBVIOUSLY DOES NOT CARRY THE SAME MEANING AS USED IN THE CONTEXT OF PHYSICAL DESTRUCTION. AND NONE OF THESE VERSES HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE END RESULT OF THE UN-REPENTED SINNERS - Keith Hunt
Wicked blotted out.
And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth: both man and beast, and the creeping thing.
Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Let them be blotted out of the book of the living.
Psalm 69:28 (29)
Things blotted out yet existing.
I will utterly put out the remembrance
of Amalek from under heaven.
Blot out all mine iniquities.
Psalm 51:9 (11)
I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions.
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us.
In all the cases cited here from the Old Testament the expressions "destroy," "blotted out," "utterly put out," are translations of the Hebrew term "machah."
But this word does not imply annihilation; for when "sins" are "blotted out" they are not annihilated. A fact, a deed, is not susceptible of annihilation. It may be forgiven, perchance forgotten, but not recalled or undone.
When the "ordinances" of the Mosaic law were "blotted out," they did not cease to exist; they merely became inoperative. Nor does the declaration that God would "utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek" imply the extinction of that remembrance; for the declaration itself perpetuates that remembrance.
ONCE MORE IT IS CONTEXT, AND CONTEXT. THE FIRST VERSE IS PHYSICAL. THE SECOND VERSE IS EXTINCTION FROM GOD'S BOOK. IF YOU ARE NOT IN IT, YOU ARE EXTINCT FROM IT. WHAT THAT MEANS YOU'LL HAVE TO SEARCH THE REST OF THE BIBLE TO FIND THE END RESULT ON THOSE EXTINCT FROM GOD'S BOOK. SAME GOES FOR PS. 69:28 (29). AMALEK BLOTTING HAS A CONTEXT ALSO. THE LAST THREE VERSES ARE AN EXTINCTION; TO THINK WE ARE UNDER GRACE, SINS NO MORE REMEMBERED AS GOD SAYS, WASHED AWAY IN JESUS' BLOOD, REMOVED AS FAR AS THE EAST IS FROM THE WEST [WHEN DOES THAT BEGIN OR END], AND YET SOMEHOW HANGS ON, HANGS AROUND FOR ALL ETERNITY…… THAT IS CRAZY THEOLOGY, AND THE ATHEISTS WOULD AGAIN LAUGH AT SUCH THEOLOGY AND WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. WHEN GOD FORGIVES SINS THROUGH THE BLOOD OF CHRIST, PUTS US UNDER HIS GRACE, THOSE SINS ARE GONE, THEY BECOME EXTINCT. SALVATION IS JUST THAT SIMPLE…. REPENT, SINS BECOME EXTINCT - Keith Hunt
Wicked have an end.
Amalek was the first of the nations; but his latter end shall be that he perish for ever.
The end of the wicked shall be cut off.
Whose end is destruction.
The righteous also.
Let me die the death of the righteous,
and let my last end be like his!
So the Lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning.
For the end of that man is peace.
Does the word "end" necessarily imply termination of being? If so, the fate of the righteous would not be an enviable one.
LIKE MANY OTHER WORDS "END" ALSO HAS A CONTEXT, AND IT'S MEANING WILL VARY WITHIN ANY CONTEXT. IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE END OF THE SINNER AND WICKED, YOU HAVE TO SEARCH THE WHOLE BIBLE TO DISCOVER THAT TRUTH; WHICH YES WILL BE DISCOVERING IF MANKIND WAS CREATED WITH SOME INVISIBLE PERSON INSIDE THE PHYSICAL PERSON, THAT CONTINUES TO LIVE ON AFTER PHYSICAL DEATH, THINKING, SPEAKING, TALKING, WALKING, HEARING, PRAISING GOD [IF IN HEAVEN] AND WELL THOSE NOT IN HEAVEN….. PAINFULLY MOURNING IN EVER-BURNING HELL-FIRE, OR HANGING OUT IN A PURGATORY LIMBO, WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO PRAY THEM INTO HEAVEN OR GIVE MONEY TO THE CHURCH TO MOVE THEM INTO HEAVEN. NO WONDER THE ATHEISTS LAUGH AT SUCH THEOLOGY, AND WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BIBLE - Keith Hunt
Wicked die; are dead.
And you hath he quickened, who were
dead in trespasses and sins.
But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.
1 Timothy 5:6
I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Righteous die, are dead.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to
be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto
I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
1 Corinthians 15:31
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
From these texts it is perfectly clear that persons may "die," and be "dead," yet all the while be physically alive and conscious. It follows that the phrase "living death," though scouted by certain writers, conveys, nevertheless, a perfectly reasonable and scriptural idea.
We have now passed rapidly in review the strongest, and apparently the most conclusive, proof-texts 245 adduced by annihilationists, and we reach the following results:
Those persons who undertake to build a doctrine upon the figures of poetry and of Oriental idiom are expending their labor just as wisely as they would be in endeavoring to make a pyramid stand upon its apex. Their foundation is inadequate, and their efforts nugatory.
FIGURES OF POETRY OR SO-CALLED ORIENTAL IDIOMS ARE FAR FROM BEING USED WHEN INSPIRED WRITERS OF THE BOOKS OF THE BIBLE, TOLD IS IN PLAIN CLEAR WORDS, THE STATE OF THE DEAD. ONLY THOSE WHO TEACH GOING TO HEAVEN FOR CHRISTIANS AT DEATH, USE SUCH WEAK AND SILLY ARGUMENTS. THEN IN SO HOLDING THEY MUST ALSO CONTINUE TO HOLD THE EVER BURNING HELL-FIRE, FOR SINNERS, LIVING IN SOME KIND OF MOURNING IN THE FIRES OF HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY. NO WONDER ALL CHURCHES ARE ON THE DECLINE; ALL EXCEPT THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH AND THE TRUE SABBATH KEEPING CHURCHES OF GOD. THE FORMER IS AN INSTRUMENT SATAN THE DEVIL LIKE TO USE, ESPECIALLY USE, SO IT INCREASES - Keith Hunt
As to the Hebrew terms rendered in our version, "consume," "cut off," "die," "destroy," "devour," "perish," and the like, neither in the original terms, nor in their English equivalents, nor in the connection in which they stand, is there inherent force or aught else which necessitates, or even warrants, the interpretation of them as implying annihilation, extinction of consciousness, or cessation of existence.
OH YES INDEED, WITHIN CERTAIN CONTEXT, WHICH AGAIN MEANS THE SEARCHER FOR TRUTH HAS TO FIND IN THE REST OF THE BIBLE, AS TO THE NATURE OF MANKIND; CREATED IMMORTAL [TO CONTINUE LIVING, THINKING, HEARING, SPEAKING, ACTING, SEEING] TO LIVE ON EITHER IN HEAVEN OR HELL-FIRE FOR ALL ETERNITY - Keith Hunt
On the literalistic hypothesis these words prove too much, and so prove nothing. For they would prove that the Messiah was annihilated at his crucifixion; that the righteous are annihilated at death; that after the Israelites had annihilated themselves there was still "help" for them; with all manner of similar absurdities.
NOPE NOT AT ALL, FOR EACH TIME SUCH WORDS ARE USED THERE IS A CONTEXT AS TO HOW IT IS BEING USED - Keith Hunt
Shame and disgrace.
Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let tbem be put to shame.
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Friend, how earnest thou in hither, not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
A whirlwind of the Lord is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.
For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind.
These and the subsequent texts illustrate different aspects or relations of the punishment which will overtake the wicked.
Where their worm dieth not, and the
fire is not quenched.
Mark 9:44 (also 46, 48)
Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest.
So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm.
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there
shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness.
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness.
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire.
Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
"Darkness" is, in one respect, and "fire" in another respect, a fit emblem of the punishment.
Dr. J. P. Thompson:246 "The laws of language require us to understand from these very metaphors, that the future state of the ungodly will be one of conscious and irremediable misery—the 'darkness' of banishment from God, the 'unquenchable fires' of memory, the 'undying worm' of remorse—a state of mental anguish prefigured by physical emblems."
It seems impossible to weigh carefully the foregoing words of scripture, without the resulting conviction that the ruin and overthrow which are threatened to the incorrigible, will be swift, terrible, and remediless.
ONCE AGAIN THE CATHOLICS AND PROTESTANTS JUST CAN'T SEE THE TRUTH OF LIGHT, BUT HAVE TO STAY WITH THIS BURNING, ANGUISHING, PHYSICAL AND MENTAL PAIN FOR LOST SINNERS, FOR ALL ETERNITY DOCTRINE. THIS IS PART OF WHY THE BIBLE HAS BECOME AS "NOTHING" TO THE MAJORITY OF THE WESTERN WORLD, AND TO THE YOUNGER GENERATION. RIGHTLY SO THEY CANNOT UNDERSTAND A GOD THAT WOULD PUNISH PEOPLE LITERALLY FOR ALL ETERNITY _ Keith Hunt
Same for all.
And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes.
Who will render to every man according to his deeds.
That every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
2 Corinthians 5:10
And death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
The first series of passages sets forth the general fact of future awards, without going into details; the second specifies the degrees or differences of retribution. Some have supposed that the parable in Matthew 20 is designed to teach "the equality of rewards," and, by implication, that of punishments. Trench interprets it better, as intended to "rebuke the spirit of self-exalting comparison of ourselves with others, and to emphasize the fact that the saints' reward is to be of grace, not of works." Alford takes a similar view.
May not, however, the teaching of the parable be simply this: In cases where the opportunity to act is wanting, God rewards the disposition in the same manner as he would have done the action itself
The absolute equality of rewards or of punishments is not implied in this parable. As Whately 247 observes: "We may be sure there will be no want of mansions, or of suitable variety of mansions, either in the place of reward or of punishment."
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
247 Future State, p. 171.
Whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.248
He that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
And he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night.
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
And thou be cast into prison. Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, . . . and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
That the texts fairly imply the endless duration of future punishment, we have no doubt. The question is: Do those at the right militate against the doctrine? Such expressions as "unquenchable 249 fire," "not forgiven, neither
248 Griesbach, Lachmann, Alford, Tregelles, Tischendorf, and Meyer apparently, read "eternal sin.'This reading, sustained as it is by the best critical authorities, affords a very strong incidental proof of the endless duration of future punishment. Eternal sin is eternal punishment. In this view, Mark 3:29 is one of the most fearfully significant passages in the New Testament. "Eternal sin!" Who can fathom the meaning of these words?
249 The Greek term is defined by Liddell and Scott thus: "Unquenched, inextinguishable, endless, ceaseless." Upon this point annlhilationist writers assert that the fire will be "unquenchable" until it has consumed the chaff and will then go out, of itself. We refrain from comment. The argument derived by annihilationists from Matthew 3:12, is peculiarly suicidal. From the fact that the wicked are symbolized by "chaff," it is inferred that they will be literally burned to ashes, as chaff is. An equally valid inference from the fact that the righteous are represented by "wheat," would be that they are stored up in the garner, to be disposed of exactly as wheat is!
in this world, neither in the world to come," "everlasting punishment,"250 "in danger of eternal sin," the "wrath of God abideth on him," "the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever," strongly imply unending misery. Such is their fair, legitimate meaning. It may be added, as the subjoined note evinces, that, if these expressions do not legitimately convey this idea, then it would seem impossible to prove from the scriptures the eternity of anything; impossible, also, to express in the Greek language the notion itself of endless duration.
THE BIBLE IS VERY PLAIN ON THE NATURE OF MANKIND; IT IS VERY CLEAR ON THE PUNISHMENT OF UN-REPENTANT SINNERS, A SECOND DEATH IN THE LAKE OF FIRE, FROM WHICH THERE IS NO RESURRECTION. THE BIBLE IS ALSO CLEAR ON THE RESURRECTION TO IMMORTAL LIFE OF GOD'S SAINTS, AND TO THEIR RECEIVING A REWARD FOR WHAT THEY DID WITH WHAT THEY WERE GIVEN. YES THE PUNISHMENT FOR SINNERS WILL BE FOR ETERNITY. THEY WILL BURN UP AND BE ASHES, BURN UP IN THE LAKE OF FIRE AND BE EXTINCT FOR ALL ETERNITY. WHILE THE RIGHTEOUS, THOSE INHERITING SALVATION AND IMMORTALITY, WILL LIVE IN GLORY WITH THE FATHER AND HIS SON CHRIST JESUS FOR ALL ETERNITY, ON A NEW EARTH PLANET, AS FORETOLD IN REVELATION 21, 22. THESE TRUTH CAN BE FOUND; THEY ARE EXPOUNDED FOR YOU IN MANY STUDIES ON THIS WEBSITE - Keith Hunt
The quotations from Isaiah and Philippians simply assert that all men shall, sooner or later, acknowledge the sovereignty of God. But while some do this in love, others may do it in wrath and terror. The subjugation of rebels neither invariably removes their inward hostility, nor transforms them into loyal subjects.
The text from Matthew 5 is a caution against litigation, an exhortation to settle difficulties previous to legal process, whenever practicable. There is probably in this place no direct reference to future punishment.\
All Israel saved.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
Only a portion saved.
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there
shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
250 In Matthew 25:46, the same Greek adjective, akbvioc,, is applied both to "punishment" and to "life." Hence it seems a reasonable inference that the "punishment," and the life are of parallel duration. As to the words akbv and akbvioc;, which, in their various modifications and combinations, are, in our version, rendered "eternal," "everlasting," "forever," "forever and ever," a very interesting discussion may be found in Professor Stuart's Essay on Future Punishment, pp. 56, 66 (new edition). He, following Knapp's Greek text, finds akbv ninety-four times in the New Testament. In fifty-five of these instances, he says the word "certainly means an unlimited period of duration either future or past, ever, always." If we include those cases in which the term refers to future punishment, and to the dominion of the Messiah, we have, says Stuart, sixty-four cases out of ninety-four in which the word means "unlimited period, boundless duration." The same author finds akbv sixty-six times. Of these, fifty-one are used in relation to the happiness of the righteous; two, in relation to God or his glory; six are of a miscellaneous nature, but the meaning in them all is quite clear; and seven relate to the subject of future punishment. [It should be added that Briider's Concordance, latest edition, gives akbv one hundred and six times, and akbvioc; seventy-one times. Probably, however, the proportion remains the same]. In view of these facts, we may conclude with Professor Stuart, that, if these expressions do not fairly imply the eternity of future punishment, "then the scriptures do not decide that God is eternal, nor that the happiness of the righteous is without end, nor that his covenant of grace will always remain, a conclusion which would forever blast the hopes of Christians, and shroud in more than midnight darkness all the glories of the gospel."
SURE THE PUNISHMENT IS ETERNAL, FOREVER. THE QUESTION IS FOR THE RESEARCHER OF TRUTH, WHAT IS THAT PUNISHMENT? IT IS THE CATHOLIC AND PROTESTANT IDEA OF MISERY IN HELL-FIRE, OR BURNING UP AND BECOMING EXTINCT BY BEING THROWN INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE? STUDIES ON THIS WEBSITE PROVE THE LATTER IS TRUE, AND THE CATHOLICS AND PROTESTANTS ARE WRONG - Keith Hunt
Alford, De Wette, Meyer, Tholuck, and others take the first text as implying a "future national restoration of Israel to God's favor." Or it may be taken as referring to the spiritual Israel; for "he is a Jew which is one inwardly" 251 All of the true Israel will be saved, while many of the nominal will perish.
IT IS A "GENERAL STATEMENT" ONLY; TIME WILL TELL IF EVERY LAST SINGLE PERSON IN ISRAEL WILL BE IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD. AND ONLY TIME WILL TELL HOW MANY WILL END UP IN THE LAKE OF FIRE - Keith Hunt
All men saved.
Until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets.
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1 Corinthians 15:22
God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2:3-4
The living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
1 Timothy 4:10
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men.
Not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:9
Some not saved.
The wicked shall be turned into hell,
and all the nations that forget God.
Salvation is far from the wicked.
The wicked is driven away in his wickedness.
There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.
All the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts.
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire.
And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Let us examine the texts at the left, and ascertain whether they teach the actual salvation of all mankind. Hackett, with Meyer and De Wette, interprets the first citation of the restoration of all things to a "state of primeval order, purity, and happiness, such as will exist for those who have part in the kingdom of Christ at his second coming."
251 Romans 2:29.
Murdock's version of the Syriac gives the passage a different turn, thus: "Until the completion of the times of those things which God hath spoken." The Arabic has, "Until the times which establish the perfection or completion of all the predictions of the prophets."
Adam Clarke, Barnes, Dr. Jonathan Edwards, 252 and others concur in this latter explanation. Obviously, neither this nor the former one implies the salvation of all men.
On Romans 11:32 Alford says that it brings to view Gods act, and not man's. The ultimate difference between the "all men" shut up under disobedience and the "all men" upon whom mercy is shown, lies in the fact that by some men this mercy is not accepted, and so they become self-excluded from the salvation of God.
The text from 1 Corinthians refers simply to physical death and resurrection. "As Adam caused the physical death of all men, so Christ will effect the resurrection of all." This is the view of Alford, Barnes, De Wette, Meyer, and others.
The citations from 1 Timothy 2 and 2 Peter assert the "wish" or "will" of God that all men should be saved. But this by no means proves that all will be saved. For some things which would be pleasing to God, agreeable to his will, do not take place. For example, he "now commandeth all men everywhere to repent." 253 Need it be said that universal obedience to this command, though it would be agreeable to the divine will, does not exist? Hence, the texts in question, while setting forth the benevolent "wish" or "will" of God, do not intimate that all men will comply with that "will."
First Timothy 4:10 terms God "the Saviour of all men." He is such, in that he preserves their lives, and grants them the day and means of grace.
Titus 2:11 asserts, indeed, that the grace of God bringeth, proffereth, salvation to all men, but does not imply that this "salvation" is forced upon them.
It is clear that none of the foregoing texts, fairly interpreted, support the doctrine of universal salvation.
The earth which he hath established for ever.
Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Will be destroyed.
Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment
252Works, i. 284. 253 Acts 17:30.
The earth abideth for ever.
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
The earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2 Peter 3:10
The earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
As to the first texts, the Hebrew word "olam" rendered "forever," does not imply the metaphysical idea of absolute endlessness, but a period of indefinite length, as Rambach says, "a very long time, the end of which is hidden from us." These texts do not necessarily teach the absolute perpetuity of the earth.
Of the opposed texts, that from Psalm 102 is a kind of comparison between the eternity of God and the dependent existence of material objects: "Though they should perish, thou shalt stand." Similarly Luke: "Though heaven and earth should pass away, my words shall not pass away." That is, my words are more enduring than even heaven and earth.
The quotations from Peter and Revelation imply that the present constitution of things will be changed; that "the cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, the solemn temples, and the great globe itself" will be subjected to the action of fire. This opinion prevailed among the ancient philosophers, especially the Greek stoics.254
The passages which speak of the destruction of the earth may therefore he taken as referring to the change or passing away of its present form; those which speak of its durability, as implying the permanence of its constituent dements.
THERE WILL INDEED COME FORTH FROM THIS EARTH, A NEW EARTH; THEN GOD THE FATHER WILL COME TO THIS NEW EARTH, TO BE WITH HIS CHILDREN, AS REVELATION 21 TELLS US. WHAT GLORY AND MAJESTY WILL BE ETERNITY WHEN ALL THIS COMES TO PASS - Keith Hunt
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
2 Kings 2:11
254 See Wetstein, on 2 Peter 3:7.
In the first text Jesus, setting forth his own superior authority, says, substantially, "No human being can speak from personal knowledge, as I do, who came down from heaven." "No man hath ascended up to heaven to bring back tidings" So we, speaking of the secrets of the future world, should very naturally say: "No man has been there to tell us about them." In saying this, we do not deny that any one has actually entered the eternal world, but merely that any one has gone thither, and returned to unfold its mysteries.
Alford applies, however, the words "hath ascended" to Christ's "exaltation to be a Prince and a Saviour."
The former explanation seems the most natural.
THE NATURAL ONE IS TO BELIEVE JUST WHAT JESUS SAID, NO MAN HAS GONE TO HEAVEN, ONLY HE THAT CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN. ELIJAH DID NOT GO TO GOD IN HEAVEN. MOSES IS NOT IN HEAVEN. ENOCH DID NOT GO TO HEAVEN. SEE THE STUDY "ENOCH, MOSES, ELIJAH - DID THEY GO TO HEAVEN?" - Keith Hunt
Flesh and blood excluded.
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1 Corinthians 15:50
Enoch was translated that he should not see death.
A late sceptical writer adduces this and the preceding as cases of discrepancy. It need only be said that, beyond question, Enoch and Elijah, before entering the heavenly world, passed through a change equivalent to death. Their corruptible put on incorruption, and their mortal put on immortality.
NOPE THEY DID NOT, AS THEY NEVER WENT TO GOD'S HEAVEN AT ALL - Keith Hunt
Publicans and harlots enter.
The publicans and the harlots go into
the kingdom of God before you.
Impure not there.
Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
The first text does not say that publicans and harlots as such, but merely that some who had been such, and had afterwards repented, should enter heaven. Paul, in the verse succeeding the quotation from Corinthians, observes: "And such were some of you, but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified." They had been corrupt and wicked, but were so no longer. Observe, also, that our Savior's assertion amounts simply to this, "The publicans and harlots are more likely to be saved, stand a better chance for salvation, than do you, chief priests and elders."
Neither this passage, nor any other, sanctions the idea of impurity tolerated in heaven.
And they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
Rest and quiet
There remaineth therefore a rest to the
people of God.
Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours.
The two cases are quite different; the former is that of the four wonderful "living creatures," the latter that of departed believers. Moreover, the "rest" attributed to departed saints is "rest from their labors"—from every thing painful and wearisome—but not a "rest" of dormant inactivity, precluding enjoyment, praise, and glorified service.
THIS HAS BEEN A VERY LONG STUDY; I SHOULD SAY A START TO A STUDY, AS THE SUBJECTS OF MANKIND, THE SPIRIT IN MAN, WAS MANKIND CREATED IMMORTAL, DEATH AND THEN WHAT, RESURRECTIONS, SALVATION, REWARDS - ALL TAKE MUCH TIME TO RESEARCH AND STUDY - Keith Hunt